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新标题装老帖,不拉风、不显摆、不喜欢方舟子

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381#
发表于 2010-10-19 19:28:47 | 只看该作者

re:[QUOTE][B]下面引用由[U]sx...

下面引用由[U]sxy[/U]发表的内容:

兄弟见过大哥,别来无恙?

刚刚还寻思,再不回来,俺就赴杭解救去,还好,没被QTV给忽悠了。


谢谢兄弟解救之心。[EM04]
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382#
发表于 2010-10-19 19:39:52 | 只看该作者

re:[QUOTE][b]下面引用由[u]云鹤...

下面引用由云鹤发表的内容:

我就想,老秋如果能够站到反“方”立场上,把自己认为非常坚挺的挺方观点狠狠批判一通,那一定很好玩


老V就是老秋的马甲,他玩儿两手互搏好一阵子了。不过老痒现在状态极佳,云老师归来更是如虎添翼,别说互博,他借几只手恐怕都不够用。


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383#
发表于 2010-10-19 20:37:07 | 只看该作者

re:转基因植物本身不是洪水猛兽,至少不会比地...

转基因植物本身不是洪水猛兽,至少不会比地沟油、三聚氰胺危害大,不过转基因植物作为一种外来入侵物种,对当地生物多样性的影响,不知我们的政府考虑周全了没有?
算了,在大片湿地可以随便开垦成高楼的地方,在污水可以肆意流入海里的地方,这一点点转基因的影响,完全可以忽略不计。
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384#
发表于 2010-10-19 21:04:18 | 只看该作者

re:呱唧,呱唧,热烈欢迎云帅回来!这片地...

呱唧,呱唧,热烈欢迎云帅回来!
这片地,我是每天跟进,每天看。可是太深奥了,看不懂。就等云帅回来拨开云雾了呢。

又见云帅,呱唧呱唧!
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385#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 21:18:46 | 只看该作者

re:老秋,好样滴!看来这个帖子随着云兄的复出...

老秋,好样滴!看来这个帖子随着云兄的复出,还要继续火下去。你找出那么个东西出来能给个地址吗?是这里来的?——http://www.biolsci.org/v05p0706.htm,http://www.biolsci.org/v06p0590.htm,还是这里:http://songshuhui.net/forum/viewthread.php?tid=12377 这能说明什么?作者实验设计有缺陷,就想策反我?印度的问题你还没给我可信的答复,当然你有资料,我也有资料,没关系,呵呵,你把下面这篇文章等一并都证伪了,再来打策反我的主意吧。





Transgenic Pollen Harms Monarch Larvae (转基因花粉危害斑蝶幼虫)



Nature v.399, n.6733, 20may99
Scientific Correspondence
作者:John E. Losey, Linda S. Rayor, Maureen E. Carter
康莱尔大学,昆虫学系(Department of Entomology, Cornell University)
Department of Entomology, Comstock Hall, Cornell University, Ithaca, New York 14853, USA
e-mail: jel27@cornell.edu

Although plants transformed with genetic material from the bacterium Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) are generally thought to have negligible impact on non-target organisms1, Bt corn plants might represent a risk because most hybrids express the Bt toxin in pollen2, and corn pollen is dispersed over at least 60 metres by wind3. Corn pollen is deposited on other plants near corn fields and can be ingested by the non-target organisms that consume these plants. In a laboratory assay we found that larvae of the monarch butterfly, Danaus plexippus, reared on milkweed leaves dusted with pollen from Bt corn, ate less, grew more slowly and suffered higher mortality than larvae reared on leaves dusted with untransformed corn pollen or on leaves without pollen.

Pollen for our assay was collected from N4640-Bt corn and an unrelated, untransformed hybrid, and was applied by gently tapping a spatula of pollen over milkweed (Asclepias curassavica) leaves that had been lightly misted with water. Pollen density was set to visually match densities on milkweed leaves collected from corn fields. Petioles of individual leaves were placed in water-filled tubes that were taped into plastic boxes. Five three-day-old monarch larvae from our captive colony were placed on each leaf, and each treatment was replicated five times. Milkweed leaf consumption, monarch larval survival and final larval weight were recorded over four days.

Larval survival (56%) after four days of feeding on leaves dusted with Bt pollen was significantly lower than survival either on leaves dusted with untransformed pollen or on control leaves with no pollen (both 100%, P=0.008) (Fig. 1a). Because there was no mortality on leaves dusted with untransformed pollen, all of the mortality on leaves dusted with Bt pollen seems to be due to the effects of the Bt toxin.

Figure 1 Survival and leaf consumption of second- to third-instar monarch larvae on each of three milkweed leaf treatments: leaves with no pollen (light blue), leaves treated with untransformed corn pollen (green) and leaves dusted with pollen from Bt corn (dark blue). Full legend High resolution image and legend (57k) [not included in this file]

There was a significant effect of corn pollen on monarch feeding behaviour (P=0.0001) (Fig. 1b). The mean cumulative proportion of leaves consumed per larva was significantly lower on leaves dusted with Bt pollen (0.57 0.14, P=0.001) and on leaves dusted with untransformed pollen (1.12 0.09, P=0.007) compared with consumption on control leaves without pollen (1.61 0.09). The reduced rates of larval feeding on pollen-dusted leaves might represent a gustatory response of this highly specific herbivore to the presence of a 'non-host' stimulus. However, such a putative feeding deterrence alone could not explain the nearly twofold decrease in consumption rate on leaves with Bt pollen compared with leaves with untransformed pollen (P=0.004).

The low consumption rates of larvae fed on leaves with Bt pollen led to slower growth rates: the average weight of larvae that survived to the end of the experiment on Bt-pollen leaves (0.16 0.03 g) was less than half the average final weight of larvae that fed on leaves with no pollen (0.38 0.02 g, P=0.0001).

These results have potentially profound implications for the conservation of monarch butterflies. Monarch larvae feed exclusively on milkweed leaves4; the common milkweed, A. syriaca, is the primary host plant of monarch butterflies in the northern United States and southern Canada5. Milkweed frequently occurs in and around the edges of corn fields, where it is fed on by monarch larvae6. Corn fields shed pollen for 8-10 days between late June and mid-August, which is during the time when monarch larvae are feeding7. Although the northern range of monarchs is vast, 50% of the summer monarch population is concentrated within the midwestern United States, a region referred to as the 'corn belt' because of the intensity of field corn production8. The large land area covered by corn in this region suggests that a substantial portion of available milkweeds may be within range of corn pollen deposition.

With the amount of Bt corn planted in the United States projected to increase markedly over the next few years9, it is imperative that we gather the data necessary to evaluate the risks associated with this new agrotechnology and to compare these risks with those posed by pesticides and other pest-control tactics.

References

Ostlie, K. R., Hutchison, W. D. & Hellmich, R. L. Bt Corn and European Corn Borer (NCR publ. 602, Univ. of Minnesota, St Paul, 1997).

Fearing, P. L., Brown, D., Vlachos, D., Meghji, M. & Privalle, L. Mol. Breed. 3, 169-176 (1997).

Raynor, G. S., Ogden, E. C. & Hayes, J. V. Agron. J. 64, 420-427 (1972).

Malcolm, S. B., Cockrell, B. J. & Brower, L. P. in Biology and Conservation of the Monarch Butterfly (eds Malcolm, S. B. & Zalucki, M. P.) 253-267 (Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County, Los Angeles, 1993).

Malcolm, S. B., Cockrell, B. J. & Brower, L. P. J. Chem. Ecol. 15, 819-853 (1989).

Yenish, J. P., Fry, T. A., Durgan, B. R. & Wyse, D. L. Weed Sci. 45, 44-53 (1997).

Brower, L. P. J. Exp. Biol. 199, 93-103 (1996).

Wassenaar, L. I. & Hobson, K. A. Proc. Natl Acad. Sci. USA 95, 15436-15439 (1998).

Andow, D. A. & Hutchison, W. D. in Now or Never: Serious New Plans to Save a Natural Pest Control (eds Mellon, M. & Rissler, J.) 19-65 (Union of Concerned Scientists, Cambridge, Massachusetts, 1998).

http://www.mindfully.org/GE/Transgenic-Pollen-Monarch20may99.htm
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386#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 21:33:04 | 只看该作者

re:kao,我就不信邪了,反Transgen...

kao,我就不信邪了,反Transgenic就是我一个人在战斗?
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387#
发表于 2010-10-19 21:50:09 | 只看该作者

re:再讲一个常识给山林听:任何一篇讨...

再讲一个常识给山林听:

任何一篇讨论转基因作物负面影响的文章,都未必构成反对转基因作物推广的证据,或者作者本人也无意于此。

比如,讨论麦类对自闭儿过敏的文章,不能用来推翻麦类作物的安全性。还有牛奶,更加了。
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388#
发表于 2010-10-19 21:50:25 | 只看该作者

re:弗兰肯斯坦是英国作家玛丽·谢利1918年...

弗兰肯斯坦是英国作家玛丽·谢利1918年所著小说中的生理学研究者,他最后被自己创造的怪物所毁灭。现在欧洲人把基因改良作物提供的食物称作“弗兰肯斯坦食物”,意谓转基因植物将造成生态灾难,威胁人类的生存。这种譬喻固然夸张了一点,但他们的担忧不是全然没有道理。

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389#
发表于 2010-10-19 21:52:11 | 只看该作者

re:我是想占反转这边的,问题是。。。。我是理...

我是想占反转这边的,问题是。。。。我是理科生,不再读一个博士,在生物博士面前不敢说话啊。

要不咱还是批 TQ 的理科思维算了,这样最有把握,特别是 LV 谱系,都是文科的。

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390#
发表于 2010-10-19 21:56:46 | 只看该作者

re:各国目前已经试种的转基因植物超过4500...

各国目前已经试种的转基因植物超过4500种,可是获得政府批准上市的品种仅40个,不到1%。这说明各国政府对此仍采取谨慎的态度,在技术因素之外,还有生态健康和社会伦理等因素需要权衡。

公众对政府批准的食品新品种将信将疑。自从发生了疯牛病、二恶英污染事件后,公众更是心有余悸了。一项民意调查显示,79%的英国公众反对试种基因改良作物。

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391#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 21:59:11 | 只看该作者

re:我也讲个常识给你听,任何为人类服务的产品...

我也讲个常识给你听,任何为人类服务的产品谁都不能拍着胸脯说,放心用,大胆吃。有人做正面的研究,就有人做负面的研究,二者协同才能更接近真相或真理。同时如果转基因花粉危害班蝶幼虫,是否意味着整过生态系统会受到连锁效应的影响,这把什么麸质对应自闭症的事放在一起说事,太有点穿凿附会了吧?
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392#
发表于 2010-10-19 22:01:28 | 只看该作者

re:如果转基因作物的基因通过授粉等途径向四周...

如果转基因作物的基因通过授粉等途径向四周“漂移”,可能会引发生态危机。  

国家环保部生物安全管理办公室官员曾发出警告:在生态系统中,转基因生物是一个具有竞争优势的外来物种,它可能破坏整个生态的平衡。

转基因至少存在三方面的不确定性:一是转基因对生命结构改变后的连锁反应不确定;二是转基因导致食物链“潜在风险”不确定;三是转基因污染、增殖、扩散及其清除途径不确定。

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393#
发表于 2010-10-19 22:03:32 | 只看该作者

re:[QUOTE][B]下面引用由[U]燕原...

下面引用由[U]燕原[/U]发表的内容:

我是想占反转这边的,问题是。。。。我是理科生,不再读一个博士,在生物博士面前不敢说话啊。

要不咱还是批 TQ 的理科思维算了,这样最有把握,特别是 LV 谱系,都是文科的。


欢迎燕博反转!我一直觉得燕博挺文科的。还有,老秋也挺文科的。你反转了,老秋也就有勇气反转了。
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394#
发表于 2010-10-19 22:05:17 | 只看该作者

re:[QUOTE][B]下面引用由[U]人在...

下面引用由[U]人在多伦多[/U]发表的内容:

呱唧,呱唧,热烈欢迎云帅回来!

这片地,我是每天跟进,每天看。可是太深奥了,看不懂。就等云帅回来拨开云雾了呢。

又见云帅,呱唧呱唧!


谢谢多多!

我也看了帖子,觉得他们太理科了,长贴看得我头晕。
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395#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 22:05:59 | 只看该作者

re:[QUOTE][B]下面引用由[U]云鹤...

下面引用由[U]云鹤[/U]发表的内容:

如果转基因作物的基因通过授粉等途径向四周“漂移”,可能会引发生态危机。   

国家环保部生物安全管理办公室官员曾发出警告:在生态系统中,转基因生物是一个具有竞争优势的外来物种,它可能破坏整个生态的...



云兄这是你写的吗?我要赞叹杭州的螃蟹比老秋生猛呀!这哪里是文科写出来的东西,这简直就是LV谱系里文武双全的料啊!
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396#
发表于 2010-10-19 22:11:17 | 只看该作者

re:[QUOTE][B]下面引用由[U]仰望...

下面引用由[U]仰望山林[/U]发表的内容:

kao,我就不信邪了,反Transgenic就是我一个人在战斗?

我在反啊,山林兄看不出来么
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397#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 22:15:54 | 只看该作者

re:哦,谢谢!把你和云兄忘了,还有那位gav...

哦,谢谢!把你和云兄忘了,还有那位gavindawn,都是反转基因的同党,当然也是反方舟子的同仁,更是反老秋和老T的志士。不过我后面有段话没好意思打出来,怕激怒了老秋。我那贴的原文应该是“kao,我就不信邪了,反Transgenic就是我一个人在战斗?反转基因的文章大把,看累死谁”,现在等他找到资料来之后,我再转一篇,呵呵。
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398#
发表于 2010-10-19 22:22:40 | 只看该作者

re:云帅一出马,队伍就拉起来了,现在就差QB...

云帅一出马,队伍就拉起来了,现在就差QBB了。

不过我怎么就感觉这里面逻辑有问题,让QBB反转,不是就等于让他说自己每天的工作就是在反人类吗。



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399#
发表于 2010-10-19 22:41:39 | 只看该作者

re:[QUOTE][B]下面引用由[U]仰望...

下面引用由[U]仰望山林[/U]发表的内容:

  


云兄这是你写的吗?我要赞叹杭州的螃蟹比老秋生猛呀!这哪里是文科写出来的东西,这简直就是LV谱系里文武双全的料啊!


悄悄告诉山帅,这是随意截取的片段。但的确说出了我想说的话,还省了码字的功夫。你转长贴,晕死T版们。我截取片段,这样弹药充裕。我这样打冷枪,打一枪换一个战壕,让T版们累坏烦死。
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400#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 22:44:06 | 只看该作者

re:看到一则消息:“2007年,在奥地利政府...

看到一则消息:“2007年,在奥地利政府的资助下,泽特克教授及其研究小组对孟都山/公/司/研发的“转基因玉米NK603(抗除草剂)和转基因玉米MON810(Bt抗虫)的杂交品种”进行了实验。在经过长达20周的观察之后,发现转基因产品影响了小鼠的生殖能力。”不知道这与最近发生在山西部分地区大老鼠绝迹有没有内在关联,就有人怀疑与当地的转基因玉米有关。
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