VT校园枪击惨案，精神卫生，自闭症

秋爸爸

VT校园枪击惨案，精神卫生，自闭症
值得联系思考。我自己想不清楚，越想越害怕。
我们孩子日后如何面对社会，社会又会如何看待它们？
南方周末本期有个系列，其中谈了一些。
http://news.sina.com.cn/w/2007-04-26/111512872970.shtml
http://news.sina.com.cn/w/2007-04-26/103512872422.shtml
http://news.sina.com.cn/w/2007-04-26/112912873051.shtml

张雁

感觉上凶手不是什么自闭症，而是青春期精神分裂，郁躁型的。我们国家对这种人例来只有一个办法：关起来。吃药。或是完全自生自灭。
说来伤心。

binfeng2000

这个凶手是不是自闭症,现在的看法是否定的,就象报纸上徐光北教授讲的那样,现在流行的那种他是自闭症的说法,其实是别人的猜测.以后或许他的家人安定下来了,我们能得到更多的内幕,但是现在看他是自闭症的说法是不足信的.
但是我自己的心情和秋爸爸一样,非常的震撼.也非常的害怕.对这件事,我们可以从很多的方面去想.对我来讲,家长在孩子成长过程中的作用,在这个令人伤心又惊心的极端例子中得到了很好的体现.
我难以想象现在他的家长们的痛苦,不光是家里出了个杀人恶魔,而且是他们的梦想和一辈子的奋斗,化为灰烬.韩国移民和中国移民有很多的相似之处,都是为了子女的教育不惜代价,整个家庭以孩子能上名校,做医生做律师为荣,这点比中国人还疯狂,如果有孩子考上了"常春藤名校",当地的韩语电视台可能会作为新闻来报道.
他们家的大女儿就是这么一个成功的例子,曾经是州韩裔学生会主席,毕业于普林斯顿大学,也是父母引以为荣的骄傲.在这种文化背景之下,社会和家庭对那些弱势的孩子就没有多少的宽容和选择了,也逼得他们向"正常孩子"靠拢,可能完全忽视了他们的特殊要求.这家父母亲就是这样,尽管一直以来他们也觉察到了儿子的心理情绪问题,也想着去问别人讨教,但是最后不了了之,其中的原因之一就是觉得儿子读书还不错,进不了""常春藤名校",也能进本州的好学校,但是儿子的异常心理却慢慢地滋长成了毒瘤.
我特别地为这他们的家人伤心,是因为他们实在是太无辜了,也是太活该了.作为家长,每日辛劳,却换来这么一个结局,想去责备他们也实在是不忍心,那就让我们一起来想想我们自己能从中吸取什么教训.
我想第一个教训可以这么说,对于一个孩子来说,不是说家长做的越多就越好,而是要看你做的对不对,可能这孩子并不需要你去移民,并不需要你去拿钱念名校,并不需要这个那个,而是需要他最需要的,但是孩子自己却不知道自己该要什么的东西,在这里,这孩子从小就需要的是心理治疗,父母给了他绿卡,给了他很好的生活环境,给了他名校,却一直没给他应该得到的东西.所以有人也替他惋惜,说他也是"受害者之一",因为他自己从小到大就一直没能得到应有的帮助.
另一个家长犯的错误,可能是传统认识上的,韩国人也是深受儒家学说之害,认为"唯有读书为上品",读书好可以"一白遮百丑",所以尽管他们已经觉察到了孩子的心理问题,却还是自己放弃了.
要在这里对他们父母亲指手画脚,实在是于心不忍.化了这么大的代价换来了一个人间悲剧,但愿旁观的人们能吸取点教训.
我想,如果要比一比为人父母,可能很少有其他的家长能作出象自闭症父母那样的牺牲来,一直以来,我看有些人想尽办法,只要有人说起什么"疗法",自己就一心扑了上去,你可以看看她们给孩子加了多少种"疗法",把自己忙得要死,把孩子逼的团团转.我很不以为然,除了私下里劝几句,基本上没公开说过,我想,现在是个机会,能让大家想想,尤其是在自闭症这个问题上,各种各样的方法贬褒不一,你"做的越多越好"不一定是好事,"做得对"才是最重要的.

dc07

事件本身已经让人震惊，现在又涉及到自闭症。因为Cho有自闭症的消息并不确实，CNN网站已撤去相关报道，但FOX还有（http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,267282,00.html）。如果不是，敲一下警钟；如果是，可能会有更多像AutismLink（美国一自闭症社团）一样的声明，同时对Cho的同情，至少从自闭症群体家长的角度，会多一点。

以下是转贴的内容，原帖有160个跟帖，只选了俩个。AutismLink的声明放在最后。



http://www.autismvox.com/on-some-comments-about-cho-seung-hui/
On Some Comments about Cho Seung-Hui
By Kristina Chew, PhD | Related entries in Crime
Mention of Cho Seung-Hui possibly being autistic has been circulating on the internet throughout this week. Some charged exchanges have arisen on some blogs in regard to this; fears have been expressed about what such a connection—-of autism to what happened at Virginia Tech on Monday—might mean for the public perception of autism, and of autistic people in particular.

I’m inclined to think that reflection is called for here more than rumor. Autism is mentioned in regard to Cho in an Associated Press story (April 20, 2007):

Cho´s great aunt, who lives in South Korea, said Thursday that because he did not speak much as a child and after the family emigrated to the United States, doctors thought he may be autistic.

“Normally sons and mothers talk. There was none of that for them. He was very cold,” Kim Yang-soon said in an interview with AP Television News. “When they went to the United States, they told them it was autism.”

Neither school officials, who have his educational records, nor police who have his medical records, have mentioned such a diagnosis this week. Autistic individuals often have difficulty communicating, but such a diagnosis would not necessarily explain his violence.

KWTX (Texas) reported that Cho’s 81-year-old grandfather, who lives in South Korea, said that he was “”well-behaved’ as a child in South Korea, but his parents were worried about his speech problems.”

The Associated Press story also notes that Cho, who emigrated to the US in 1992 at the age of 8, did not speak English well in high school, after living in this country for some time:

Once, in English class at Westfield High School in Chantilly, Va., when the teacher had the students read aloud, Cho looked down when it was his turn, said Chris Davids, a Virginia Tech senior and high school classmate. After the teacher threatened him with an F for participation, Cho began reading in a strange, deep voice that sounded “like he had something in his mouth,” Davids said.

“The whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, `Go back to China,´” Davids said.

Stephanie Roberts, 22, a classmate of Cho´s at Westfield High, said she never witnessed anyone picking on Cho in high school. But she said friends of hers who went to middle school with him told her they recalled him getting bullied there.

“There were just some people who were really mean to him and they would push him down and laugh at him,” Roberts said. “He didn´t speak English really well and they would really make fun of him.”

You may have read this this press release, whose title is AutismLink Reacts to Diagnosis of Autism in Virginia Tech Shooter and which states that “Cho Seung-Hui was diagnosed with autism as a child.” Whether Cho actually received an actual autism diagnosis is not clear, at this point; some news stories say that he “was autistic,” while others note that there were concerns that he “might” be autistic. It is Cho’s “speech problems” (the nature of which is hard to ascertain from brief news reports) as a child that are being highlighted in regard to autism, and a number of other criteria are part of an autism diagnosis.

(Questions have also been raised about the way in which Cho’s race has been discussed. The New York Times reports on Korean-Americans‘ response—and fears of a backlash.)

Before saying anything more, I am going to wait for more information.

160 Responses to “On Some Comments about Cho Seung-Hui”




J A Silva Says:
April 20th, 2007 at 3:57 am
Presently we do not have sufficient information regarding a connection between a diagnosis of high functioning autism and Cho.

A few mental health professionals including me, are exploring a potential connection between higher functioning autism and violent behavior. For those interested, I recommend my review in this area. You can obtain it by going into the American Academy of Psychiatry in the Law Website. Then go to the Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law, volume 34: 374-384, 2006.

Part of the problem with working in this area is that many mental health professionals and parents of persons with higher functioning autism are reluctant to explore the possibility that a link between higher functioning autism and serious violent behaviors may exist. This is understandable with regard to parents and relatives. We know that both mental illness and the potential for violence can carry substantial societal stigma.

However, I believe that engaging in denial will ultimately lead to greater problems and even tragedy. If it turns out that Cho had been diagnosed with some form of autism, then the case of Cho may well highlight this very problem.

Athena Says:
April 20th, 2007 at 4:03 am
As an Aspie and the mother of three Autistic children I fear the mentality that says lets talk about the victims and forget about the killer. Why he did this is critical to helping to prevent some other child from doing the same thing. We didn’t learn with Columbine and we are not going to learn from this one either and we are doomed to repeat this over and over until we learn. His potential neurological differences explain why he did not respond the same way as “neurotypical” kids do to the teasing that occurs in middle and high school. If this child was diagnosed with Autism then WE, the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA failed him and we as a country are responsible for what happened on that campus. I see this level of anger every day in my work as a advocate for Autistic adults. Living with this neurological difference is difficult enough without people taunting us by offering to pay us to talk as I heard one Virginia Tech student admit to doing to Cho. The behaviors of the neurotypical community toward anyone that does not “behave” as they think a person should behave is disgusting. I understand Chos anger. I DO NOT CONDONE HIS ACTIONS. However, I do not condone the actions of many of the Virginia Tech students toward him either. Who is to blame? Everyone and no one. Cho had problems. He may have been Autistic. Not every Autistic will react the way he did. Many of us are just as angry as he was but we have different outlets for that anger. Personally I try to, with great difficulty, to teach the neurotypical community that their way is not the ONLY CORRECT WAY. When this is taught to children early on in life they tend to be less judgmental and less cruel.

“and they weren’ even DOING anything”

perhaps that was the problem no one was doing anything………………..


Marcie Says:
April 20th, 2007 at 8:42 am
I agree that more emphasis needs to be put on bullies to prevent this kind of tragedy from happening again.

But I also can’t help but think of all those people who talk about their neighbor who turns to be a murderer as “Someone who was always nice and you’d never suspect something like that out of him”. Yet noone suggests that we should be more suspicious of those kinds of people.

Bonnie Ventura Says:
April 20th, 2007 at 8:43 am
I just read on Kevin Leitch’s blog that CNN’s website removed all mention of autism from the story because it was an unconfirmed rumor.

julie Says:
April 20th, 2007 at 9:02 am
Autism or not There was evidence that he was troubled and needed help and the schools and police were unable to do anything because of the system in place. We as a society failed him because of that, and because we failed him we failed all of the victims and their families. It is all so sad. More tolerance needs to be taught all acroos the board no matter what the differences are between people.

＃＃＃＃＃＃＃＃＃＃＃＃＃＃＃＃＃
AutismLink Reacts to Diagnosis of Autism in Virginia Tech Shooter

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/04-19-2007/0004569764&EDATE=


    PITTSBURGH, April 19 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- AutismLink and Autism
Center of Pittsburgh Director Cindy Waeltermann today issued a statement
regarding the recent revelation that Virginia Tech shooter Cho Seung-Hui
was diagnosed with autism as a child.
    "While the entire autism community in Pittsburgh and across the nation
are devastated by the recent events at Virginia Tech, we would like to
caution the public not to stigmatize children or individuals with autism.
Cho likely did not receive the help and support that he needed early on --
that is why early intervention is so important, and that is why places like
the Autism Center of Pittsburgh exist. The act of one individual should not
reflect upon the entire autistic population.
    It is unfair to blame Cho's actions on autism when he was clearly
psychologically impaired and likely had another disorder in addition to his
autism. His psychological evaluations apparently revealed a dark history
that concluded that he was an imminent danger to himself and others and was
also depressed.
    This is a wake up call that stresses the importance of early
intervention, research, and appropriate treatment strategies. Many strides
have been made in autism spectrum disorders and research has consistently
shown that when children receive the help that they need early on they are
more likely to become more adept at social and communication skills.
    Autism affects 1 in 150 children and is now the most commonly diagnosed
developmental disability in the world. It is time to recognize autism for
the epidemic it is."

秋爸爸

我们的孩子，社交障碍必然导致他们将来在社会上受到歧视，反过来社会的压力必然让他们出现突出的心理问题。
这些心理问题再回应到社会上.... 所以，担心。
这里网上已经有了一篇高功能自闭症成为他人戏弄对象的专论-《阿斯博格症和被欺负者》

我遇到过一个家长，也见到他6-7岁的孩子，在他几年来的强力干预下，进步很快。
那孩子能够非常好地和他爸爸做各种竞争性/合作性的游戏，若引来一个普通孩子，他们也可以一起长时间地玩的高高兴兴。
可是，要是来了3个普通孩子一起玩，10分钟后，他就给“踢了出来”。
他爸爸问，怎么不去玩了？孩子闷闷地说：“他们不带我，说我不会玩！”
这情景让人感叹。他爸爸忧虑道：“这才6岁，他已经知道自己在被排斥了，到了青春期，会怎么样？肯定会出严重的心理问题。”
当时，这个家长告诉我，“什么是训练主线，就是“教游戏规则”，上至高官，下至小孩，成功的，就是会利用“游戏规则”。”

L女士

因此，我也在思考自闭症孩子的玩伴教育问题、融合教育问题、性教育问题、结交朋友问题等等。家长应该以怎样的态度和方式来对待和处理这些问题呢？

mmm

我不知道这个男孩的家庭教育是怎样的，但是我直觉这个男孩子的家庭环境一定不是很好。

凡我亲眼见过的，性格暴戾难以相处的人多来自这样的家庭：家里两个或多个孩子，有的优秀，有的不优秀。父母对孩子的爱是“投资”式的：“有出息”的孩子得到的爱和呵护多，“没出息”的孩子得到的斥责和白眼多。不够优秀的孩子长期被有意的冷淡和压抑，在成长的过程中，心中满怀愤怒。

这样成长起来的孩子，有的很难与别人相处，有的则过于讨好别人。总之，他们经常是社会活动的失败者。

我个人认为健康的家庭环境比社会环境更重要。家庭环境好，抵御外界困难的能力就会强。不怕困难，困难就不再困难。我见过的性格平和、易于相处的人都来自健康家庭，他们朋友多，克服困难的能力强。许多别人办不到的事情，在他们那里很容易解决。那些脾气古怪、很难相处的人都有一对怪异的父母。这些人每天心怀愤恨，容易钻牛角尖，遇到困难就走极端。所以，给孩子创造一个良好的家庭环境是我们自闭症父母首要的责任。

何子

我一直在想这件事。不是因为凶手被确认或者猜测为自闭症，而是我们的孩子如何完成生命教育，帮助孩子认识自已，认识自己与他人的关系、自已与环境的关系......帮助他们建成一个健康的精神世界。
我的孩子认知进步了，品德也在进步，或许还有别的，我依然十分担心自已给予孩子的是一个拼盘教育，当孩子为自己没有朋友掉下眼泪的时候，我真的很伤心。我们的孩子要面对多么艰难的环境，而他们无能为力，他们的精神后花园里更是一片空白，我仔细看看自己栽下了什么，看看这些是否会长成期待中的树。
训练的手段和技术都为目标服务的，如果错了道，还真是南辕北辙。

zouwen

这件事情让许多人更多地看到自闭症这个名词，但同时也给许多人带来误区，认为有自闭倾向、性格内向的人就是自闭症。

这是今天早晨看到的一篇博客文章，关于枪杀案的，其中有一句话是："如今自闭症儿童越来越多。生活，工作节奏加快，父母只管吃穿，无暇顾及子女的情感。。。。。。"

http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/4c01689c010008hp

秋爸爸

当刚知道这件事与自闭症的联系上的时候，我很怕。
别人起初告诉我的时候，我也就开玩笑说，“那你以后就多多讨好我儿子吧！”，可心里真震动。
虽然，凶手目前不认为是个自闭症患者，但是自闭症不是一个“谱”吗，所以，也许由于我的家长身份，特别敏感，或者悲观，我总觉得他还是像是个“倾向者”，尽管说起来，他不具备“临床特征”，但也许处在高功能的一个远端位置。
这件事，让自闭症圈子也许有些为难，一方面想基此呼吁大家的关注，一方面也怕社会会更加“敌视”。

张雁

也许因为我的孩子基本没有暴力倾向，所以我觉得秋爸是不是过于担心了？现在外界有些人把好的坏的都往自闭症上靠，真叫一个不靠谱！咱们也别过于紧张，觉得有必要就解释下，有时说也说不清就算了。
我接触过有精神分裂史的人。他们和我们的孩子完全是两个谱系。例如这些人经常陷入幻觉，而我们的孩子基本上不幻想自己从没接触过的东西。暴力这个东西也是习得的，楼上有位家长对家庭教育的分析很深入，我们就是要从家庭做起根绝这种东西。

秋爸爸

嗯，过虑了。是啊，我孩子还远没有“高功能”到那份儿。我还在为他们能否上学担忧呢。不过，小声地，我LP有点儿暴力倾向，怕遗传了。

binfeng2000

前面何子提的那个博,我很愤怒地给他留了言,骂他是"胡说八道,信口开河".

另外,赵家的父母亲其实是大好人,人人都说他们好,问题大概也是他们"太好"了,还是一句话,"光有爱是远远不够的,要爱得对,爱得正确".

轩儿

别担心了，活着就是克服一个又一个困难的过程！

彩云追梦

怎么这事也跟自闭症联系上了，是不是一些人实在是和自闭症较上了呀
只能说有些人愿意使用一些时髦的词语来代替他们的无知而已
我想不论是自闭症还是孤独症，都会被一些人误解和错用的
而且误解和错用这些词语的正是一些对此知之甚少的人
真的知道了，看他们还想显摆不
要是再和精神残疾联系起来，他们是不是更喜欢跟风呢
唉，一句两句也说不清楚，只能期待大众认知的提高，让整体社会的理解才有我们孩子的将来

顺子妈妈

下面引用由彩云追梦发表的内容：

怎么这事也跟自闭症联系上了，是不是一些人实在是和自闭症较上了呀
只能说有些人愿意使用一些时髦的词语来代替他们的无知而已
我想不论是自闭症还是孤独症，都会被一些人误解和错用的
而且误解和错用这些词...

确实不是骇人听闻！忍不住把去年的＂北大安然命案＂的老帖子翻出来大家看看！我不是医生，可你看完这篇报道，你能说安然的症状和自闭症没有一点关联吗？

我很震惊，也很害怕！担心自己孩子的将来．．．．

http://www.elimautism.org/leadbbs/Announce/Announce.asp?BoardID=83&ID=178030

何子

凶手更像是人格障碍.. 人格障碍是指人格适应不良，即不伴精神症状的人格适应缺陷。此类人的内在体验和行为具有持续的明显偏离文化期望范围的倾向。
偏执型人格障碍 这种人敏感多疑，常将他人无意的或友好的行为误解为敌意或轻蔑，过分警惕与防卫，总认为自己是正确的，往往将自己的挫折或失败归咎于他人。
［临床表现］

　　广泛地不信任和怀疑他人，将他人的动机都认为是怀有恶意。

　　①无足够证据怀疑他人利用、伤害或欺骗自己。
　　②总是无证据地怀疑朋友或同事不忠诚或不可靠。
　　③不愿信任他人，同时怕自己的资料被他人用以恶意地反对自己。
　　④常从一般性评论或事件中寻找贬低或威胁意义。
　　⑤持续地怀有愤恨，即不忘记他人的侮辱、伤害或轻蔑。
　　⑥常感到他人并无恶意的言语侮辱他的人格或名声，并立即作出惯怒反应或反击。
　　⑦无证据地反复怀疑配偶或情人的忠贞。
　　⑧不只发生在精神分裂症、有精神病性特征的心境障碍或其他精神病性障碍的病程中，也不是某种躯体疾病的直接生理效应所致。


人格障碍的治疗是困难的。他们较少主动求医，而且目前的治疗仅可改善一时性的精神病发作，减轻社会和情绪功能不良或为了适应社会需要对他们进行管理。药物治疗时，人格障碍的一些症状有效，然而没有哪一种药物是普遍有用的。心理治疗必须个别化进行，而且不同类型人格障碍应采用不同种类的心理治疗。

　　人格障碍的预防应从儿童开始。父母的爱护、悉心照料和正确教养以及良好的环境，可减低人格障碍的发生。儿童大脑有较大的可塑性，一些性格倾向经适当的教育可以纠正，如听之任之，发展下去可出现不正常人格。

从这二起凶杀案中得到的最大启迪是：从小给孩子正向的情绪体验，创设良好的家庭环境，并努力营造良好的社会环境，注重培养孩子良好的品德，注意孩子的心理健康。尤其我们的孩子普遍有情感发育的障碍，而且时时会遇到挫折和压力，帮助他们提高情感认知，发展情感，懂得情绪的控制和调节，学习从正确的角度（从他人的角度，从多角度）看待问题，正确对待生活中的负性事件，都将是我们很重很重的任务。

彩云追梦

也许是我对两起案件没有做更深入的了解
————————－
但是我认为美国发生的枪击案，我绝对不认为他是自闭症，我认为他是心理问题造成的。

我只是根据一点报道做出自己的判断

更何况，现在稍微的有点心理问题造成后果的就会和自闭症连系起来，这是我觉得不能忍受的
就像一些电影电视明星，稍微的心理上面的问题
都会是说自己稍微的自闭了之类的话题
我就想是不是非要把自闭症之类的话题扩大化，非要一些似是而非的东西都要加到自闭症上，那么所有的外界就相安无事了呢，大家都可以心安理得的说这个属于自闭症，是全世界的难题，而不能从深层次的发现问题，问题的真相真的就是他们所理解的吗，不见得是。
刚才也看了你说的  安然命案，从上面所描述的仿佛有点自闭症的影子，不可否认
可是就算退一步说是自闭症，那么我们的社会和国家，还有更多的人群就没有责任了吗，他们就不需要面对了吗，难道非要等到命案出来了，大家把这个群体批的体无完肤之后就没事了吗。不是这样的
正因为有这样的一个群体，才需要我们从认知上，从理解上，从接纳上等等之类的，让他们能适应所有的变化，还有就是我们知道孩子情况的，不要刻意的，不要过分的隐瞒事情的真相（当然，这个话题要是说开了，就多了很多了）。
如果说，我们让社会都不能接纳的时候

那么我们还真的就没有希望了，我想。

美国把遇难的群体里面涵盖了这个凶手，这个我想更值得深思。

何子

最近在一个博客中看到一个故事，觉得非常的好，转述给大家：

Two Wolves
在一个ESL班上，一个60岁充满活力的右手还是残疾的做义工的老太太，是我们的英语谈话
辅导老师，给了我们每人一张小纸条，就是下面的这段英文，因为刚好是美国发生校园枪击案之后，老太太非常的健谈和幽默，给我们出了这道题，让我们在学习英语的过程中了解到人性的复杂多面，联想到当前的事实，让我感悟颇深，回家后立刻拿给我的儿子认真地学习，不只是每个单词而是它的深刻的喻意！希望我们内心充满的永远是“ GOOD”!

P.S. Cherokee 是美国著名的游学家.

Two Wolves

One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle that goes on
inside people. He said, ”My son, the battle is between 2 wolves” inside us
all.

One is Evil. It Is anger,envy,jealousy,sorrow,regret,greed,arrogance,self-
pity,guilt,resentement,inferiority,lies,fasle,pride,superiority and ego.

The another is Good. It is joy, peace,
love,hope,serenity,humility,kindeness,benevolence,empathy,generosity,truth,compa
ssion and faith.”

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather: ”
Which wolf wins?”

The old Cherokee simply replied: “ The one you feed.”
中文：两只狼
一个晚上，一个切罗基族老人给他的孙子讲人类内部的战争。他说：“我的孙子，这是两只狼之间的战争”

一只是邪恶的。它是生气的，嫉妒的，悲衷的，贪婪的，傲慢自大的，自怜自衷的，罪恶
的，愤恨的，自卑的，谎言的，失败的，骄傲的，高傲的，自我的。
另一只是善良的。它是欢乐的，和平的，有爱的，有希望的，平静的，谦卑的，仁慈的，仁爱的，神入的，慷慨的，真诚的，同情的，真实的。

孙子想了一会然后问他爷爷：“哪只狼会赢呢？”
这个切罗基族老人简单的回答：“那只你喂养的”

良良的妈妈

这个故事太棒了.