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新标题装老帖,不拉风、不显摆、不喜欢方舟子

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81#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 14:08:45 | 显示全部楼层

re:老秋,你拍胸脯子说转基因是安全的,是不是...

老秋,你拍胸脯子说转基因是安全的,是不是要我来仰望一下?什么元首服乱七八糟的。你和方舟子的处理争议的方式一个样,那就是攻其一点,不及其余。用“急眼”来说事,我也可以反过来说你急眼了。这搞到最后就只能用骂娘来解决,没意义,要说事就说事,别说人,好吗?
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82#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 14:15:32 | 显示全部楼层

re:上面我转的文章你看清楚了再说话。

上面我转的文章你看清楚了再说话。
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83#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 15:05:48 | 显示全部楼层

re:呵呵,谢谢楼上,被支持心里总是温暖的,昨...

呵呵,谢谢楼上,被支持心里总是温暖的,昨天看犹太史,作者在天涯上连发,不断有人攻击,提出问难,辩难,作者说了一句我很欣赏的话:不和你辩,怕这么好的历史因为自己水准不够,被我辩歪曲了。
其实与t、秋两位辩论我有种游戏的心态,亦庄亦谐,无伤大体,在我提供的材料里至少可以说明,当下,方舟子及其追随者们玩不了一言堂了。

下面还有篇论文:


转基因作物伤害动物内脏(论文全文)


作者:直言了(2010-04-01)


本人在和讯日志介绍了关于转基因作物伤害内脏的论文后,反馈颇为积极,许多人再次体会到事物总是多面的,转基因技术也如此,即:一些利益官员媒体只说转基因作物的效益而不说风险,那推销做法既不是诚实商业广告,更不是科学发展观、更不是国家法规政策所允许的。

该论文发表于国际生物学刊(2009-12-10),作者是法国科研人员。他们的论文说明:经过足够样本和多方面比较,发现转基因玉米对老鼠内脏发生毒性副作用,作用程度跟食用数量时间和对象性别等因素相关。跟2004年以来陆续发表的调查报告一样,这个实验也打破了所谓转基因食品作物是安全的神话。该实验报告还比较分析了孟山都公司提供的转基因作物喂养老鼠的实验数据,指明该数据存在足够严重的方法问题和不完整等问题。

据介绍,该国际生物学刊为纯学术刊物,编委会由中欧美澳等国的生物学、基因学和医学等相关学科的专业学者组成;诺贝尔科学奖获得者、分子遗传学转家马里奥·卡佩奇等三位美国国家科学院院士(包括中国科学家陈竺)入盟为编委成员。作者要发表论文,需要如实说明自己与论文内容是否有利益冲突;若有,或难以发表、或其学术价值可能大打折扣,即:该刊物是按照美国英国等政府卫生部门的学术刊物标准为经营原则的 (在美国等西方发达国家,某学术刊物对作者与论文内容是否有利益冲突的要求,往往是判断该杂志公正性的重要尺度之一)。

之后不久,美国联邦政府卫生部也发表了该论文。此时此刻,正是美国联邦法院决定介入相关部门、审查孟山都公司转基因作物种植申请报告是否存在“自己审批自己”的行为和数据提供是否符合法规要求等问题。

到昨天为止,简单查询看,有大约11,200个英文网站或网页从该杂志或从美国卫生部转载了该论文,可见关注程度之大之广。

应一些读者网友来信要求,本人征得该刊物同意,在这里转载

美国卫生部发表地址连接:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20011136 ..

论文标题:A Comparison of the Effects of Three GM Corn Varieties on Mammalian Health.。
发表刊物:Int J Biol Sci 2009; 5:706-726, Ivyspring International Publisher.
发表时间:Received 2009-7-23 /Accepted 2009-11-17 /Published 2009-12-10 .
连接地址:http://www.biolsci.org/v05p0706.htm / http://www.biolsci.org/v05p0706.pdf 。
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84#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 15:15:17 | 显示全部楼层

re:除了以方舟子为圭臬,你们还有啥?

除了以方舟子为圭臬,你们还有啥?
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85#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 15:35:23 | 显示全部楼层

re:[QUOTE][B]下面引用由[U]th...

下面引用由[U]thankstoyilin[/U]发表的内容:

山林可真一抓一个准啊,不容易。

“直言了”也是被方舟子批为“谎话连篇”的一个。



我用股沟一搜,嚯!方舟子被直言了批得体无完肤。
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86#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 15:46:02 | 显示全部楼层

re:鲁迅写文章一直就用这个化名,你该不该因此...

鲁迅写文章一直就用这个化名,你该不该因此也鄙视?逻辑啊,逻辑!
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87#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 15:47:41 | 显示全部楼层

re:我就想不通你为什么不看别人说什么,而要看...

我就想不通你为什么不看别人说什么,而要看这人是什么呢?此风不可长!
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88#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 15:51:15 | 显示全部楼层

re:按这个逻辑再下来,在以琳注册的人是不是都...

按这个逻辑再下来,在以琳注册的人是不是都要把马甲给扒了,换上真名,赤膊上阵才孔武有力?荒唐,老T啊,见识哦。
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89#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 15:55:23 | 显示全部楼层

re:你不是搞分子生物学的吗?怎么不务正业搞起...

你不是搞分子生物学的吗?怎么不务正业搞起服装道具来了?前面你除了“柳叶刀”是你的稻草,你就没找出第二根来,法国的那篇论文看看你能不能再楸出根稻草来。
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90#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 16:02:32 | 显示全部楼层

re:网上牛,用化名就该鄙视,这是你的全部逻辑...

网上牛,用化名就该鄙视,这是你的全部逻辑关系。在网上是客观,可以延伸到在公共领域写文章的人(A),牛不牛是你个人的主观想象,或略不计,用化名(B),就该鄙视(C),用你的A和B推导出C,我这不就都把他们给套进去了吗?
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91#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 16:04:35 | 显示全部楼层

re:你为什么不能反过来想,方舟子也被我看够了...

你为什么不能反过来想,方舟子也被我看够了呢?
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92#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 16:11:06 | 显示全部楼层

re:我以为你扒了根“转基因玉米喂养哺乳动物”...

我以为你扒了根“转基因玉米喂养哺乳动物”文章的稻草呢?
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93#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 16:28:40 | 显示全部楼层

re:记住,紧跟主题,我等着你扒拉一根高质量的...

记住,紧跟主题,我等着你扒拉一根高质量的稻草来让我围观一下,这才是你的正业。
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94#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 16:42:21 | 显示全部楼层

re:我不看你这些不扣主题的帖子,我等你证伪法...

我不看你这些不扣主题的帖子,我等你证伪法国作者那篇论文的板砖,也就是你的稻草,如果所有的论文都被你证明有问题,哪怕仅剩下这篇,转基因食物的安全性就成了悬而未决的问题,谁都不能做夜郎拍胸脯说,听他的,尽管吃。如果秋爸爸作为以琳网少有的专业人士都不能消解我这个外行对转基因食品安全的疑虑,那么,如何重申转基因食品的安全性都是在放空炮。
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95#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 17:16:07 | 显示全部楼层

re:你哥俩就自说自话吧,俺累了,此贴没有实质...

你哥俩就自说自话吧,俺累了,此贴没有实质性的回复之前,365楼就算我的结语。云兄回来了,估计忙,但他一直在暗中关注。
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96#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 17:24:24 | 显示全部楼层

re:这么狠啦,我前面还想与他一起去杭州的呢,...

这么狠啦,我前面还想与他一起去杭州的呢,这冷汗出的,庆幸没去啊。
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97#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 21:18:46 | 显示全部楼层

re:老秋,好样滴!看来这个帖子随着云兄的复出...

老秋,好样滴!看来这个帖子随着云兄的复出,还要继续火下去。你找出那么个东西出来能给个地址吗?是这里来的?——http://www.biolsci.org/v05p0706.htm,http://www.biolsci.org/v06p0590.htm,还是这里:http://songshuhui.net/forum/viewthread.php?tid=12377 这能说明什么?作者实验设计有缺陷,就想策反我?印度的问题你还没给我可信的答复,当然你有资料,我也有资料,没关系,呵呵,你把下面这篇文章等一并都证伪了,再来打策反我的主意吧。





Transgenic Pollen Harms Monarch Larvae (转基因花粉危害斑蝶幼虫)



Nature v.399, n.6733, 20may99
Scientific Correspondence
作者:John E. Losey, Linda S. Rayor, Maureen E. Carter
康莱尔大学,昆虫学系(Department of Entomology, Cornell University)
Department of Entomology, Comstock Hall, Cornell University, Ithaca, New York 14853, USA
e-mail: jel27@cornell.edu

Although plants transformed with genetic material from the bacterium Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) are generally thought to have negligible impact on non-target organisms1, Bt corn plants might represent a risk because most hybrids express the Bt toxin in pollen2, and corn pollen is dispersed over at least 60 metres by wind3. Corn pollen is deposited on other plants near corn fields and can be ingested by the non-target organisms that consume these plants. In a laboratory assay we found that larvae of the monarch butterfly, Danaus plexippus, reared on milkweed leaves dusted with pollen from Bt corn, ate less, grew more slowly and suffered higher mortality than larvae reared on leaves dusted with untransformed corn pollen or on leaves without pollen.

Pollen for our assay was collected from N4640-Bt corn and an unrelated, untransformed hybrid, and was applied by gently tapping a spatula of pollen over milkweed (Asclepias curassavica) leaves that had been lightly misted with water. Pollen density was set to visually match densities on milkweed leaves collected from corn fields. Petioles of individual leaves were placed in water-filled tubes that were taped into plastic boxes. Five three-day-old monarch larvae from our captive colony were placed on each leaf, and each treatment was replicated five times. Milkweed leaf consumption, monarch larval survival and final larval weight were recorded over four days.

Larval survival (56%) after four days of feeding on leaves dusted with Bt pollen was significantly lower than survival either on leaves dusted with untransformed pollen or on control leaves with no pollen (both 100%, P=0.008) (Fig. 1a). Because there was no mortality on leaves dusted with untransformed pollen, all of the mortality on leaves dusted with Bt pollen seems to be due to the effects of the Bt toxin.

Figure 1 Survival and leaf consumption of second- to third-instar monarch larvae on each of three milkweed leaf treatments: leaves with no pollen (light blue), leaves treated with untransformed corn pollen (green) and leaves dusted with pollen from Bt corn (dark blue). Full legend High resolution image and legend (57k) [not included in this file]

There was a significant effect of corn pollen on monarch feeding behaviour (P=0.0001) (Fig. 1b). The mean cumulative proportion of leaves consumed per larva was significantly lower on leaves dusted with Bt pollen (0.57 0.14, P=0.001) and on leaves dusted with untransformed pollen (1.12 0.09, P=0.007) compared with consumption on control leaves without pollen (1.61 0.09). The reduced rates of larval feeding on pollen-dusted leaves might represent a gustatory response of this highly specific herbivore to the presence of a 'non-host' stimulus. However, such a putative feeding deterrence alone could not explain the nearly twofold decrease in consumption rate on leaves with Bt pollen compared with leaves with untransformed pollen (P=0.004).

The low consumption rates of larvae fed on leaves with Bt pollen led to slower growth rates: the average weight of larvae that survived to the end of the experiment on Bt-pollen leaves (0.16 0.03 g) was less than half the average final weight of larvae that fed on leaves with no pollen (0.38 0.02 g, P=0.0001).

These results have potentially profound implications for the conservation of monarch butterflies. Monarch larvae feed exclusively on milkweed leaves4; the common milkweed, A. syriaca, is the primary host plant of monarch butterflies in the northern United States and southern Canada5. Milkweed frequently occurs in and around the edges of corn fields, where it is fed on by monarch larvae6. Corn fields shed pollen for 8-10 days between late June and mid-August, which is during the time when monarch larvae are feeding7. Although the northern range of monarchs is vast, 50% of the summer monarch population is concentrated within the midwestern United States, a region referred to as the 'corn belt' because of the intensity of field corn production8. The large land area covered by corn in this region suggests that a substantial portion of available milkweeds may be within range of corn pollen deposition.

With the amount of Bt corn planted in the United States projected to increase markedly over the next few years9, it is imperative that we gather the data necessary to evaluate the risks associated with this new agrotechnology and to compare these risks with those posed by pesticides and other pest-control tactics.

References

Ostlie, K. R., Hutchison, W. D. & Hellmich, R. L. Bt Corn and European Corn Borer (NCR publ. 602, Univ. of Minnesota, St Paul, 1997).

Fearing, P. L., Brown, D., Vlachos, D., Meghji, M. & Privalle, L. Mol. Breed. 3, 169-176 (1997).

Raynor, G. S., Ogden, E. C. & Hayes, J. V. Agron. J. 64, 420-427 (1972).

Malcolm, S. B., Cockrell, B. J. & Brower, L. P. in Biology and Conservation of the Monarch Butterfly (eds Malcolm, S. B. & Zalucki, M. P.) 253-267 (Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County, Los Angeles, 1993).

Malcolm, S. B., Cockrell, B. J. & Brower, L. P. J. Chem. Ecol. 15, 819-853 (1989).

Yenish, J. P., Fry, T. A., Durgan, B. R. & Wyse, D. L. Weed Sci. 45, 44-53 (1997).

Brower, L. P. J. Exp. Biol. 199, 93-103 (1996).

Wassenaar, L. I. & Hobson, K. A. Proc. Natl Acad. Sci. USA 95, 15436-15439 (1998).

Andow, D. A. & Hutchison, W. D. in Now or Never: Serious New Plans to Save a Natural Pest Control (eds Mellon, M. & Rissler, J.) 19-65 (Union of Concerned Scientists, Cambridge, Massachusetts, 1998).

http://www.mindfully.org/GE/Transgenic-Pollen-Monarch20may99.htm
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98#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 21:33:04 | 显示全部楼层

re:kao,我就不信邪了,反Transgen...

kao,我就不信邪了,反Transgenic就是我一个人在战斗?
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99#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 21:59:11 | 显示全部楼层

re:我也讲个常识给你听,任何为人类服务的产品...

我也讲个常识给你听,任何为人类服务的产品谁都不能拍着胸脯说,放心用,大胆吃。有人做正面的研究,就有人做负面的研究,二者协同才能更接近真相或真理。同时如果转基因花粉危害班蝶幼虫,是否意味着整过生态系统会受到连锁效应的影响,这把什么麸质对应自闭症的事放在一起说事,太有点穿凿附会了吧?
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100#
 楼主| 发表于 2010-10-19 22:05:59 | 显示全部楼层

re:[QUOTE][B]下面引用由[U]云鹤...

下面引用由[U]云鹤[/U]发表的内容:

如果转基因作物的基因通过授粉等途径向四周“漂移”,可能会引发生态危机。   

国家环保部生物安全管理办公室官员曾发出警告:在生态系统中,转基因生物是一个具有竞争优势的外来物种,它可能破坏整个生态的...



云兄这是你写的吗?我要赞叹杭州的螃蟹比老秋生猛呀!这哪里是文科写出来的东西,这简直就是LV谱系里文武双全的料啊!
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