感统这玩意儿，有用吗？

牛由

感统训练是否有用的问题，我没有发言权， 因为两年前在另外一个网站看过一个帖子，从此不碰感统。虽然孩子的进步还算让人满意，但加入感统，会不会更好一些， 不知道。最近看到有位同学谈这方面的内容， 想起这个帖子， 其中观点大致是感统无用。其用语比较偏激，所以这里不作翻译，原文照贴。

-------------------------------
By Ben Wolfson

Dear bfskinnerpunk,
When I first logged on to this site, I asked thisvery question. I asked it for a reason, not because Ididn't know the answer which I'll lay out for ya. The
reason I asked is because I wanted to hear from othersto make sure that it wasn't just me that's thinking ofstarting a petition to outlaw OT.

> > When someone says, "as you know, autistic kids have sensory issues"... what do you think this means.

I think this means that the person who is stating it is ignorant. Imagine, someone goes to a Dr. and the doc says,"We need to operate right away!" You ask the Doctor,"Oye! What's the problem??" And the Doc responds, "Oh,the patient has cardiac issues." Huh?

Sure, we have to "do therapy" for "sensory issues." Listen: OT's bread and butter is explainatory fiction.

The kid won't sit? Sensory issue. The kid bites others? Sensory issue. He refuses to eat veggies? Sensory issue. He closes his eyes during therapy? Sensory issue. And let's not forget the other classic: He has transition problems.

BFskinnerpunk, it's like this: I saw a one of my kids that I service in the home in session at the Center where he also goes. He was covering his eyes and trying desperately to tune out the instructor. I asked the instructor, "What do you spose is causing that reaction?" You guessed it: sensory issues. Explanatory fiction: the child never does that w/me and I'm w/him two hours a day. The problem: the instructor was SCREAMING. "DO THIS!" and, YEA. an inch from his face. Sensory issue? Sure, my defenses get raised when one of my senses is attacked. Screaming in my face will get an escape response.

My brother is sensitive to the sun. He's a redhead.So he increases his: "sun avoiding behavior." I hate spinach. That's a sensory issue. I practise "spinach avoiding behavior." But I'm not going to pay an OT $150 an hour to increase my spinach eating behaviors.

A child flaps his hands. Usual suspect: automatic reinforcement. Stimming in today's coffee house jargon. OT response? Put weights on his wrists. Child is biting others? OT response: Looking for oral stimulation. The fact that the one he bit was holding this non-verbal child by the collar and he has a history of biting to get attention/escape means precious little to an OT.

Now you ask, what does it mean in terms of treatment strategies. The first move is to have the OT removed from the team. The second is to do a functional analysis on the particular behavior. The third is to form a hypothesis of function and replace the behavior.

> It's certainly said a lot, but I don't think I have  ever heard anyone
> say what this really means... or more importantly. ..
> what this implies in terms of treatment strategies.
> Do they simply mean that the student is sensitive, for instance, to  certain noises? or scratchy fabrics? (making it
> difficult to teach when those noises are present)

Temple Grandin is "sensitive" to scratchy fabrics.She will give you a 20 minute dissertation on the kind of underwear she uses. Is this a sensory issue? Yes.Which sense? Tactile. Does it require "therapeutic intervention? " No. Buy cotton.

Children cover their ears? Step one: get ears checked. If no problems discovered, get specific information, not: sensory issues. What noise? When?
Where? How (another room? outside? At the bowling alley?) And then you take steps to get the child used to that noise by exposure. Don't say, "the ears, the brain, the sensory blah blah." Ask: "What? When? Where? Who? How?

> Is that it? or are they implying a more fanciful theory?
> (e.g. as in the way "sensory integration theory" works... which is baffling)

Sensory integration theory: At present SIT is being carried to the junkheap of abandoned theories.

I cannot tell you how many times I've had a parent tell me: he won't eat, he can't chew, he can't wear short pants, he won't sit in a plastic chair, he
doesn't like loud sounds (except, for some reason,Barney turned up full blast), he bites, he covers his eyes, etc. etc. ad nauseum all being explained by:
"sensory issues." And all being shown to be nonsense,very often, on our very first session. This week started w/a new kid who: couldn't chew. By the end of session one, he was eating pretzels. His mother almost feinted. Had an argument about hand flapping. All therapists were to put 2 1/2 pound wrist
weights while working w/child. I refused. They all did and took data: result: weights increased hand flapping when not on. When on, he could barely lift his hands.

I've got to stop. I could write on this topic forever.

Bottom line: when someone says, "sensory issues" they are using an explainatory fiction.Period.

ben
-------------------------------------------------------

blue sky

在说一下滑滑梯，以前不敢滑那种圆筒型的（整个管道是全封闭的，只有一个进口，一个出口），每次一去，就开始哭闹，我没有强迫她，后来1年后吧，自己敢了。

blue sky

我也同意ZC的话，我女儿上个训课，每次都是开心的跑出来，可是每次感统课都会有一到二次的情绪爆发，老师说是难度略大一点，孩子就不同意！

ninfo

看到这，忽然想起自己身上的问题，就此向专家请教： 我从小就怕小动物，尤其是有毛的，（虽然心理也承认它们挺象小孩，挺可爱的）比如小狗，小鸡，猫等。如果让我去摸它们，就会浑身起鸡皮疙瘩，非常难受。这算不算感统失调，比如触觉失调？ 这个问题困扰我很久了，以致于影响的女儿对待小动物的态度，这可不是我想看到的。

月下漫步者

    我觉得首先感统肯定是有用的，这个可以从一些孩子的训练中看出来，他们确实是通过感统训练有了不同的进步。
    但有两个前提，第一是你先要知道孩子在感统上有什么样的问题，做什么样的感统训练可以对他的问题有帮助！有些人是这样的，他们只是知道感统训练可以改善孩子的触觉、本体、前庭，只是知道感统怎么做，却往往忽略了自己的孩子到底出现了什么样的感统问题。也根本不知道什么样的训练项目解决什么样的感统问题！结果真就有些人，孩子本身是触觉的问题，没弄明白就拿一些训练本体的项目给他做，做上很久也没效果，就开始胡乱埋怨说感统无用！
    第二个前提，你要知道感统训练的方法，我知道好些人上来就问这个项目一天需要做多少时间或者是问这个项目一天需要做几次。可是问“这个项目在训练的时候要注意什么，要点是什么，难点是什么，需要孩子达到什么样的状态”的人却不多，这不叫训练感统，这叫走过场。然后也是看到训练好久没什么起色就鼓吹什么感统无用论，实在无聊！

仰望山林

[em17]   [em01]

thankstoyilin

很多好的理念和想法，往往被霸道的做法“劫持”。楼上所说的就是例子。

培养孩子的配合力是个好的想法，但非要让孩子哭得稀里哗啦还认为这么做是为了培养配合力，这就“假（借）合理之名行霸道之事”。

----呵呵，山林兄看到我这一贴，估计是会心笑笑。哈哈。

cc2006

我也有同感 现在孩子在机构上课 感统课上的推小车（就是家长抬着孩子的双脚让孩子用两只手往前爬着走）孩子不愿做 可是老师说有用 于是逼着完成 但一节课都哭的稀里哗啦的  我曾跟老师交流过说孩子哭的这么伤心就算了吧 不就是让小孩爬嘛  换种形式比如钻洞啥的孩子可能更好接受 我看亲子中心的大型器械玩具孩子就很喜欢 爬着钻进钻出的 可老师说不行 说这样的孩子不懂配合 不愿意做的事就得强迫完成 这样才明白规矩 才会有进步。 心里很矛盾 是所有的事情 只要是对的就需强迫孩子完成还是像亲子中心那样用更柔和亲切的态度慢慢影响纠正孩子呢？

thankstoyilin

下面引用由[U]asd123[/U]发表的内容：
我的想法是感统课和其他的课程对孩子的训练效果是等同的

感统有感统的适用情况和效果，但要说和其他课程的效果是等同的，这个意思就不对了。

抛开任何流派之见，我到目前为止坚持认为，自闭儿的核心问题不是感统问题，因此感统训练也无法解决自闭症的核心。感统训练的意义前面已经说得很多了，不再赘述。

永远是需要针对孩子的具体情况，来确定训练的重点内容、辅助内容。要识别什么训练内容，在某阶段最主要，最有利于其他能力的同步增长。

winston

是不是所有的自闭孩子都有感统问题，都需要感统训练呢？

老郭

下面引用由[U]牛由[/U]发表的内容：

感统训练是否有用的问题，我没有发言权， 因为两年前在另外一个网站看过一个帖子，从此不碰感统。虽然孩子的进步还算让人满意，但加入感统，会不会更好一些， 不知道。最近看到有位同学谈这方面的内容， 想起这个...

感统，对我的儿子来讲，作用太大太大。

xiaohushen

有用呀！我们正常人也要锻炼呀，我想有几项是好的。1锻炼身体，增强自身的抵抗能力。2.有助于全身的协调发展。3.有助于大脑对各种刺激信息进行加工处理，并作出适应性的反应能力。4.有助于语言的发展。5.有助于培养孩子的手眼协调。我是一名感统教师，这是我的个人看法。

牛由

47楼这首诗， 我原以为第3句最好。经楼上一点拨，发现这第4句“楼阁朦胧”，求同存异，实在难得。

是过于脂粉了一点，换一个颓废的吧，也是同一行里既有“秋”，也有“楼”，还有酒。

——————————————————————
咦~~~~~~~~~~~~~~哈~~~
弃我去者，昨日之日不可留；
乱我心者，今日之日多烦忧。
长风万里送秋雁，对此可以酣高楼。
蓬莱文章建安骨，中间小谢又清发。
俱怀逸兴壮思飞，欲上青天揽明月。
抽刀断水水更流，举杯浇愁愁更愁。
人生在世不称意，明朝散发弄扁舟。
——————————————————————————

周末愉快，5.1 愉快，新婚愉快。

秋爸爸

理解诗，还是朦胧诗，我先晕~感统差~要练要常读。虽然此诗太脂粉气，瞧人家杨利伟练感统，是坐离心机的。但是同一行里既有“秋”，也有楼主的“楼”（也包括所有楼），算做到求同存异，好诗啦。

燕原

看了半天，不都一个意思么。

凡是自己玩的，没用。
凡是两个人玩的，有用。

强化物，人，最好是。。。。的人。

牛由

谢谢QBB的课，很受益。但对他说的“自己荡秋千，没用”略有质疑。孩子的理解力很大程度上是建立在自己的经验上的，特别是TOM这一块。如果他不会自己荡秋千， 体会到前庭刺激给他带来的快乐， 请问他怎么去理解下面这首诗呢？

恻恻轻寒翦翦风， 小梅飘雪杏花红。
夜深斜搭秋千索， 楼阁朦胧烟雨中。

yitonglisa

下面引用由[U]牛由[/U]发表的内容：

楼上这位MM很犀利，我赶紧解释一下。Vincent的感觉问题很严重，把它那出来说事儿，是想帮他，主意也许都是馊主意，但绝没有不同情的意思。而且，当然知道他在各位MM心中的地位，不敢惹的。

说起感...

没想到V大哥还有这样的感觉问题, 上周见了V大哥主动上前握手,觉得V大哥握手很真诚有力. 问题好象没有楼上说的那么严重.:)


LG有个走读学生,晕车,从来骑自行车,估计大学毕业后,所找的单位应该是自行车能够到达的地方,SJ, WGQ, JQ, JD等工业区那些单位估计没法去了.

牛由

楼上这位MM很犀利，我赶紧解释一下。Vincent的感觉问题很严重，把它那出来说事儿，是想帮他，主意也许都是馊主意，但绝没有不同情的意思。而且，当然知道他在各位MM心中的地位，不敢惹的。

说起感觉异常，我有一个朋友，NT,晕车。晕到根本不能乘车，拖拉机也不行。尝试过吃药，没用。从小到大，都是在自行车或助动两轮车的所及的范围内活动，包括上大学，工作。后来结婚，新郎是赶着马车来迎娶的。 但她没核心问题，乐趣是少了很多，但想开了，也没什么。

niuniuma

感觉统合这个概念也许模糊不清，感觉这个概念应该没问题吧。不管“感统训练”对感觉异常有没有帮助，不能否认的是感觉异于常人，是他们的常见问题。要同情之。

星想事成

北京有没有不用排队等候的感统训练机构？过两天回国可以带儿子去尝试一下。