以琳自闭症论坛

标题: 地板时光年会专贴 [打印本页]

作者: kwenma2 时间: 2006-11-21 03:31
标题: 地板时光年会专贴
地板时光年会回来，贴一些相关内容。

才从第10届地板时光年会上回来，感触很深。Greenspan (chairman)and Serena Wierd (vice-chairman) 做了专题报告。Rocki 医生报告中述说她15年前找Greenspan做地板时光时，Greenspan 谈到她小孩将来上大学怎么样，她还感到迟疑。而现在她告诉大家她的小孩将在明年春上大学。整个过程充满了感情和眼泪。

综合我这几天的学习和会议，地板时光很能调动小孩的积极性，引导他们主动走出
自己的世界。有些小孩对ABA不应，但2-3个月地板时光训练后能主动找大人交流。

我专门去问了一下Serena关于地板时光在中国的情况。了解到目前中国只有香港才有训练
师。不过大家也不要失望，因为地板时光是主要由训练师训练家长，再由家长训练
小孩。有条件的家长可去培训，无条件的家长可买书来自己学习。我还打听到Greenspan的“CHILDREN WITH SPEICAL NEEDS” 有中译版，是台湾发行的。有兴趣的家长可上网寻找。

关于FLOORTIME的信息，在中国香港有一个点开始做。有感兴趣的家长可问我要，我
就不贴在此，免得有“托”的嫌疑。

作者: kwenma2 时间: 2006-11-21 03:37
标题: re:Stanley I. Greenspan...
Stanley I. Greenspan, M.D.
Serena Wieder, Ph.D.

MOBILIZING EACH OF THE SIX FUNCTIONAL DEVELOPMENTAL LEVELS

I. Shared Attention
A. Use the child’s individual sensory and motor profile to draw him into shared attention (e.g., more visual experiences for the child who especially enjoys looking).
B. Harness all the available senses, as well as motor capacities and affects (e.g., involve the child in interactions that involve vision, hearing, touch, and movement, coupled with highly enjoyable activities).
C. Use both constructive and playfully obstructive strategies (e.g., dance or run together with the active child; build a fence with your arms around the child who likes to avoid or run away).
D. Stretch the child’s capacity for shared attention by increasing the interactive circles of communication rather than trying to get the child to focus on a particular object or toy.

II. Engagement
A. Follow the child’s lead in order to engage in interactions that bring him please and joy.
B. Build on these pleasurable and enjoyable interactions.
C. Join in the child’s rhythm in terms of affect, visual, auditory/vocal, and motor movements.
D. Join with physical objects of the child’s pleasure (e.g., put the car he is fascinated with on your head and let him roll it on your head as though it were a mountain).
E. Attempt to deepen the warmth and pleasure by giving priority to his comfort and closeness (allow him to lie on you or cuddle or rock with you or stroke your hair for long periods of time).
F. If necessary, use a little bit of playful obstruction to entice him to focus on you. (Engagement involves a range of emotions, from pleasure and warmth to annoyance and assertiveness.)

III. Two-way, purposeful interactions with gestures
A. Be very animated and attempt to exchange subtle facial expressions, sounds, and other gestures (i.e., entice her into a rapid back-and-forth rhythm).
B. Go for the “gleam in her eye” (i.e., entice her with your animated exchanges into an alert, aware, involved back-and-for pattern).
C. Open and close circles of communication by building on her natural interests, inspiring her to respond to what you do. Keep it going as long as you can.
D. Treat everything she does as purposeful, in order to harness circles of communication (flapping hands could be the basis for an interactive flay-your-hands dance or for a game of waving at each other).
E. Encourage initiative by avoiding doing things for him or to him.
F. Support initiative by challenging him to do things to you (e.g., when roughhousing, get him to jump on you or push you down or climb up to your shoulders, rather than simply picking him up and swinging him or doing other things that may be fun, but do not support his initiative).
G. Help hi go in the direction he wants to by initially making his goal easier to achieve, such as moving the desired ball closer to him.
H. Help him be purposeful by creating a goal where none may appear to exist (e.g. he is moving his car around in a back-and-forth motion and you might stand behind the schoolhouse and claim to need a delivery).
I. Over time, build obstacles between him and his desired goal to increase the number of circles of communication (block his access to the door or turn the door knob the wrong way).
J. As needed, be playfully obstructive (build fences around him if he is aimless; get between him and his goals when he is repetitive or perseverative (e.g., get stuck behind the door he’s opening and closing.

IV. Two-way, purposeful problem-solving interactions
A. Extend circles of communication by creating extra steps (e.g., play dumb so he has to show you how to open the door; when she is moving the car to the school, you exclaim and gesture that you first need a delivery at the hospital).
B. Extend circles of communication by being playfully obstructive and creating interesting barriers or obstacles to his goals.
C. Work up to a continuous flow of circles (e.g., some children will gradually go from three circles to five to ten, etc,; others will get into a continuous flow of thirty plus circles quickly).
D. Challenge her to close circles of communication (e.g., the child is moving her car but ignores your desire t have your dolly go for a ride in it. You block her car with your hand while you gesture in an animated fashion for her to give the dolly a ride.).
E. Combine affect with action and interaction (i.e., always be animated and show affect through voice and facial expressions while creating interactions).
F. Increase the interactive range, including affects and emotions (e.g., child is just hugging dolls and the wolf comes to make trouble, so the child becomes challenged t o knock the wolf away and increase assertiveness).
G. Increase interactive range in different processing areas, including:
1. Visual/spatial (e.g., chase, hide-and-seek, treasure hunt games)
2. Motor planning and sequencing (e.g., obstacle courses, search games, child has to use two or three steps to open the latch to find the cookie). Perceptual motor (e.g., looking/doing interactions such as rolling, throwing, and/or kicking Nerf balls back and forth, reaching for desired objects on a moving string (while crossing the midline)).
3. Auditory processing and language (using sounds and, when possible, words to communicate (e.g., use animated, compelling vocal tones to draw child’s attention or to communicate (e.g. use animated compelling vocal tones to draw child’s attention or to indicate safety, danger, approval, disapproval, or excitement)).
4. Imitation (draw child into copycat interactions where child is shown how to reach for or get something he wants or to make a sound that will get him something he wants).

V. Elaborating ideas
A. Encourage the use of ideas in both imaginative play (e.g., hugging the dolls) and realistic verbal interactions (e.g., “open” door).
B. Use ideas off of affect or intent (i.e., “want juice!” rather than labeling juice in a picture).
C. W(ords)A(ffect)A(ction) – Always combine words or ideas together with affect and action.
D. Chit-chat using words all the time.
E. Encourage imagination through using familiar interactions for pretend play (e.g., feeding, hugging, or kissing dolls).
F. Jump into a drama that your child has begun. Become a character and ham it up. Communicate mostly as the character, rather than as yourself.
G. Alternate between being a character in a drama of your child’s choosing and a narrator or sideline commentator.
H. Periodically, summarize and encourage your child to move the drama along with a question or challenge.
I. Entice your child into long dialogues.
J. Create challenges where ideas or words are necessary (e.g., “up” because the needed action figure is up on the shelf). Keep extending the dialogue.
K. Encourage the use of all types of ideas (symbolic expression) (e.g., pictures, signs, complex spatial designs (building a city), and acting out roles oneself).

VI. Building bridges between ideas (emotional thinking)
A. Close all symbolic circles in both pretend play and reality-based dialogues (e.g. challenge the child always to respond to what you are saying and doing, just as you respond to what she is saying and doing).
B. Challenge the child to connect different ideas or subplots in a drama.
C. Whenever the child seems confused, brings in something from left field, or seems fragmented or piecemeal in her thinking, challenge her to make sense and be logical. Do not supply the missing pieces of logic (e.g., “I’m confused. We were having a tea party and now we’re flying to the moon?
What happened?”)
D. Be patient and summarize the confusing elements. If the child is not able to build bridges between his own ideas, provide some multiple choice possibilities. Avoid supplying the answer or taking control of the discussion.
E. Challenge with “w” questions, including “what” “where” ‘when” “who” and “why.”
F. When the child ignores or avoids responding to “w” questions, such as “what did you like at school today?” through out some silly possibilities to get the child thinking (e.g., “Did the elephant visit your class today?” or “Did you see your boyfriend (or girlfriend) in class?”)
G. Explore reasons for actions or feelings (e.g., “Why are you attacking me?”).
H. Use multiple choice as needed, always putting the likely answer first and the unlikely one second.
I. Have your character in the pretend play create unexpected situations to challenge the child towards creativity and new solutions. Use humor, conflict, and novelty.
J. Challenge the child t broaden the emotional range in the dramas (e.g., so that it includes caring as well as assertiveness and aggressions).
K. Encourage reflection on feelings in both pretend dramas and reality discussions (e.g., “why do you want to go outside?” or “what’s the reason for the attack?”)
L. Gradually increase the complexity of reflective thinking (e.g., challenge child to give different reasons or motives for actions or consider different views – “How does Sally feel after Mary took her toy” and “How does Mary feel?”)
M. Challenge child to give opinions rather than facts (e.g., ‘what color do you like best and why?” rather than “which color is this?”)
N. Enjoy debates and negotiations, rather than simply stating rules (except where the rule is absolutely essential).
O. Encourage choices and discussions of choices.
P. Encourage and challenge the child into the back-and-forth use of words, instead of focusing on correct grammar.
Q. Increase spatial thinking (e.g., treasure hunt games, junior architect games – lay out a whole city for the action figure drama, etc.).
R. Encourage motor planning and sequencing capacities (e.g., draw diagrams for a tea party or house decorations or attack strategies for space wars, etc.).
S. Encourage understanding and mastering concepts of time by challenging the child to use the past, present, and future (e.g., “What are the space monsters going to do tomorrow?” or “Yesterday we went to the zoo. What would you like to do tomorrow?”)
T. Encourage understanding and use of quantity concepts (e.g., how many cookies should each doll at the tea party have?).
U. Pre-academic or early academic work, complex problem-solving, and social skills should be based on providing an understanding of basic concepts (i.e., connecting ideas) through emotional interactions.
For example:
1. In math, negotiate using candies, cookies, or coins to learn adding or subtracting. Keep the numbers small to avoid rote memory. Eventually work on visualizing the objects and doing the calculations using images.
2. In reading, visualize or picture what is being read (whether the parent or child reads it) and then pretend it out and/or discuss it. Embellish the ideas further.
3. In writing, initially use flexible spelling and word choice and focus on interactive, creative stories and communicating needs or opinions. Later, work on correct spelling, etc.
4. For problem-solving and social skills, work on anticipating by visualizing what may happen later or tomorrow, including positive and negative situations. “Picture” the situations, feelings involved, typical solutions, and alternative ones.
V. In both pretend and reality-based conversations, challenge towards higher levels of abstraction by shifting back and forth between the details (the trees) and the big picture (the forest). For example, periodically wonder how all the things the child has been talking about fit together.
W. Gradually expand the child’s range of experiences (without overload or over-stimulation) because emotionally-based experiences are the basis for creative, logical, and abstract thought.
X. Challenge the child to symbolize auditory, visual-spatial, tactile, motor planning and affective capacities together (e.g., building a city [visual-spatial, motor planning, tactile] with different dramas being acted out [auditory-verbal, thematic, imaginative] involves creative, affective interests being
played out in a pattern of integrated thinking).
VII. Tailor your interactions to the child’s individual differences in auditory
processing, visual/spatial processing, motor planning and sequencing, and
sensory modulation.
A. Profile the child’s individual differences based on observation and history.
B. Work with the individual differences. Utilize natural strengths for interaction (e.g., visual experiences for the child with relatively strong visual/spatial capacities). Gradually remediate vulnerabilities (extra practice for listening to and using sounds and words for the child who has a receptive language or auditory processing challenge; extra soothing for the sensory-over reactive
child; and/or extra compelling and animated for the sensory-under active child).
VIII. Simultaneously attempt to mobilize the six functional emotional
developmental levels (attention, engagement, gestures, complex preverbal problem-solving, using ideas, and connecting ideas for thinking). For the younger child or child with developmental challenges, the later levels will be mastered as the child develops. (See Greenspan and Wieder, The Child with Special Needs.)

作者: kwenma2 时间: 2006-11-21 03:55
标题: re:这是关于语言学习中的一些方法，理疗及...

这是关于语言学习中的一些方法，理疗及工具的信息:

Relationship/Affect and Development of Speech Skills
Diane Lewis, MS, CCC-SLP

Components Necessary for Intelligible Speech

The Basics

Cranial--Sacral Therapy
www.upledger.com
....A gentle, non--invasive, hands on approach used to evaluate & enhance body function. Strengthens overall health, motor coordination, sensory perception, range of motion & neuromuscular function.
....Semi--closed hydraulic system contained within a tough membrane which envelopes the brain and spinal cord.
....Restrictions can impact emotions, movement, respiration, phonation & articulation.respiration, phonation & articulation.

Lymph Drainage Therapy
....www.upledger.com
....LymphLymph--transports fluid in a uni--directional manner
....Drain stagnant fluids, detoxify, regenerate tissues, filter out toxins & foreign substances & maintain a healthy immune system.
....Increased range of motion of muscles in neck, mouth, face regions.
....Autonomic nervous system
....Bruno Chikly MD --Lymphatic Drainage Therapy

Sensory Integration
....http://www.sensoryint.com/
....Tactile & Proprioception
. Vestibular . Vision & Auditory . Regulation . Availability for Movement

Music
....Regulation & Attention
....Rhythm & Intonation/Prosody
....Formulation of Vowels + Consonants, Words
.... Respiration & Phonation and Sentences

NeuroDevelopmental Treatment
((BobathBobath))
....www.ndta.org
....Normalization of muscle tone for function
....Therapeutic handling--hierarchy Respiration, Phonation, Articulation (jaw--lipslips--tongue)tongue)
. Hypotonicity (low tone) . Hypertonicity (high tone) . Mixed tone

Beckman StretchesBeckman Stretches
....http://www.beckmanoralmotor.com/
....Increasing strength in jaw, lips, tongue
. Evaluation . Exercises

Prompts for Restructuring Oral Muscular
Phonetic Targets (PROMPT)

www.promptinstitute.com
....Planes of movement and the whole body
.... Grading of movement . Specific sound production . Sequencing of sounds

Horn, Bubble, Straws and Bubblegum Programs
....Sara Rosenfeld--Johnson and Talk Tools
....http://www.talktools.net/
. Sensory . Speech . Respiration . Jaw, Lips, Tongue

Kaufman Speech Praxis Test
....Nancy R. Kaufman
....Speech Praxis Test for Children
. Wayne State University Press, Detroit, Michigan. 1995 . Organization-Hierarchy the dyspraxic child.

....Information to teach sequences of sounds for OralOral--Motor Appendix, ABLC
The AffectThe Affect--Based Language Curriculum (ABLC)
....Stanley I. Greenspan, MD & Diane Lewis, MA, CCC/SLP .

作者: yyh 时间: 2006-11-21 11:08
标题: re:请问如何购买该书的中文版?谢谢!
请问如何购买该书的中文版?谢谢!

作者: 幸运锁 时间: 2006-11-21 16:25
标题: re:看不懂英文，谁能帮忙翻译一下吗？谢谢！
看不懂英文，谁能帮忙翻译一下吗？谢谢！

作者: 幸运锁 时间: 2006-11-21 16:26
标题: re:我也想买书．
我也想买书．

作者: teresa_piao 时间: 2006-11-23 11:40
标题: re:中文版(繁体)的书名叫《特殊兒教養寶典》...
中文版(繁体)的书名叫《特殊兒教養寶典》. 我刚订了一本，收到以后再把读后感告诉大家。在找这本书的过程中，我发现一个妈妈的博客网址，正好也在推荐这本书。这个妈妈应该是住在加拿大的，有一些有关孩子的记录。我正在拜读。http://myblog.pchome.com.tw/_/myblog/?blog_id=hsichiachao&y=2006&m=05&an=20629&acn=2075

作者: 柔风细雨 时间: 2006-11-23 16:54
标题: re:请问楼上您从哪里定的?能告诉我吗?不胜感...
请问楼上您从哪里定的?能告诉我吗?不胜感激!

作者: teresa_piao 时间: 2006-11-24 13:57
标题: re:我也是乱搜的。最后在淘宝网上面找到一家...
我也是乱搜的。最后在淘宝网上面找到一家。用书名搜，就只有一家卖。

作者: kwenma2 时间: 2006-12-2 02:19
标题: re:我最近在研究ABA &FLOORTIME...
我最近在研究ABA &FLOORTIME(是DIR的一种最重要的方法)。从许多过来的家长那里
也了解到总体而言，ABA比较机械，孩子训练后学习好像还不错，但还是机械的理解
一些问题，很难有发自内心的想与人交流。只有静态的社交能力(比如看见人说“你
好”)，但没有动态的社交能力(比如除了“你好”后如何与人进行真正意义上的交
流)。DIR 能通过抓住孩子的兴趣从而按照6个阶段培养(GREENSPAN 的书中有介绍)出
孩子发出内心的交流欲望，解决问题的能力。另外一种比较好的是RDI。它也是侧
重于孩子的动态的社交能力。。但与FLOORTIME其是相对立的。

作者: 马拉松路上 时间: 2006-12-9 19:24
标题: re:和地板时光相对立到底是怎么解释呢
和地板时光相对立到底是怎么解释呢

作者: Andrew 时间: 2006-12-11 11:52
标题: re:As my understanding,...
As my understanding, the most improtant things is LOVE and TRUST in floor time. Any present method would be fail without them.
If you really love your child, you could understand and forgive what your child's behavior. If your child always trust you, he will try his best to do what you want him to do.
All in all, the foundation of the relationship is the key point.

作者: kwenma2 时间: 2006-12-12 00:55
标题: re:[QUOTE][b]下面引用由[u]马拉...

下面引用由马拉松路上发表的内容：

和地板时光相对立到底是怎么解释呢

地板时光是以孩子为中心，为领导，大人围着孩子转，孩子自己开始一项活动。大人
利用他对该项活动的兴趣而适当地插入，与之进行交流互动从而达到交流的目的。
而RDI是以大人为领导，大人开始一项活动，让小孩跟你的思维来转，从而达到交流
的目的。

作者: binfeng2000 时间: 2006-12-12 04:59
标题: re:让孩子唱主角,大人借机行事,这样就带来一...
让孩子唱主角,大人借机行事,这样就带来一个问题,我们知道自闭症的孩子在初期,常常会执迷于那些刻板的无意义的行为中而不能自拔,这时候,他很难对其他的东西感兴趣,那么这时候,大人等待的时间,可能不是几天,几星期,可能是几月了,对于训练师或老师,这可能不会有太大的影响,可是对家长的影响就太大了,人人都在讲早期干预是关键,但是真的要是训练起来了,几星期几个月地看着老师和孩子在一起,看起来还是孩子玩孩子的,老师干等着.家长不跳脚才怪呢.
这也是我觉得大家所讲的ABA和其他认知方面的训练方式,如RDI,地板时光,比来比去,争来争去却常常没讲到的问题,也就是可操作性和可检验性,听起来地板时光好象容易些,但是这里面的分寸不好掌握,什么时候孩子才会感兴趣呢?能感兴趣多久多强烈呢?我需要做什么才能让他感兴趣呢?一切都是"法无定法".
最主要的是结果,这样做的前提大概就是"时光"了,但是要等多少时光才能让家长看到一些"希望的苗头"呢?老师训练的结果到底可以用什么来衡量呢?我觉得这些在可检验性上的"不确定性",大概是造成了"地板时光"面世以来却久久没有大量的独立的研究报告问世,(现在格林斯潘说正和多伦多大学在合作一项常年的调查),我想这也是很多学校和家长之所以选择了ABA,而不是地板时光的原因吧.

尽管我现在没用任何这样那样的训练方法,但是如果时光倒流,我心目中最佳的组合应该是:ABA为主的课堂教学,和地板时光或RDI引导下的家庭及休闲训练.

作者: 秋爸爸 时间: 2006-12-12 09:59
标题: re:大人在干预过程中的主导地位，我想应该成为...
大人在干预过程中的主导地位，我想应该成为各种自闭症干预方法的共识。包括RDI，对此也有确的要求，启步就是要建立“师徒关系”。地板时光的此方面的具体做法不知是否有明确的说明？

这样做的原因，就是像楼上冯帮主所说的，如果让孩子唱主角，大人跟着走，貌似“带上童心”，让孩子从兴趣出发”去学习，实际上可能会过于放纵而虚度时光了。因为说到底，我们的孩子是特殊孩子，大家都有过这样的苦恼, 他们时而非常敏感，对于无聊的事物乐此不彼，时而又迟钝得很，那么有趣的东西他们却无动于衷。

ABA在教学中强调的是孩子的“反应”不强调孩子的“兴趣”，有趣/无聊，我说了算，我通过教学来让你体会到。当然，我并非凭空说了算，肯定也是带着童心的，也是参照正常孩子的兴趣的，我给你的奖励是糖块而不是香烟，就可以算周知的“童心”和兴趣。ABA早期干预自闭症，靠行为强化而培养孩子的兴趣，而非单纯以孩子的兴趣出发，这在于一般幼儿教育的理念上似乎“大逆不道”，因为那里都说“兴趣是最好的老师”。

ABA最受人垢病的方面，就是楼主说提到的“机械”的问题，具体说来，包括孩子过分依赖辅助，包括强化物难以撤除的问题。这两方面在现在ABA的教学要求中，也一上来就提醒大人注意：它们的引入，从一开始就要计划着如何最终撤出。但这的确是个难点。一方面，有训练操作上的刺激控制，和自然强化的转移，这还属于大人能够努力操控的，可另一方面，孩子天生的生理障碍，像“镜像神经细胞系统障碍”，让孩子天生就是缺乏“共鸣”，因而难于形成行为记忆，让我们叹息教学进展的缓慢。

比如简单的握手问候的行为，我孩子在实际中，就是难以富有情感地在入园时候向老师热情地致意，难现出其他儿童情感交流，那种机械，曾经让我沮丧透顶。但我还是清楚地意识到，这绝非单纯的一两项“握手”“你好”的训练项目就可以教出来的，需要各方各面大量的基础技能的积累，而那些积累，对于普通孩子却是容易达成的。所以，沮丧过后，我明白要求孩子对老师表现那种“献媚讨好”式的亲切问候，为时尚早。

作者: 秋爸爸 时间: 2006-12-12 11:36
标题: re:地板时光中有一个教条非常重要:如果孩...
地板时光中有一个教条非常重要:
如果孩子启动的一个活动,大人一定要积极参与,并把它引向正确的方向.
这一点与大人主导的要求并不矛盾,它更强调的是我们的观察力和敏感性,及对孩子正向行为主动性的强化.这在ABA训练中,包括即时教学中也是强调的,比如设置障碍,设置情境,目的在于教给孩子社交启始能力和维持能力.但是ABA要求,如果孩子未能按期望进行下去,大人一定要给予及时的辅助,而不能顺其自然,如此,突出了大人的主导地位.

作者: kwenma2 时间: 2006-12-13 00:48
标题: re:我想冯帮主和秋爸爸都说得有道理。最开始我...
我想冯帮主和秋爸爸都说得有道理。最开始我也像冯帮主担心的一样，只由小孩的兴
趣，小孩一般都有机械刻板行为，那怎么办？

我最近才开始在一个地板时光培训师那里培训。我带小孩去，小孩启动活动后，她
告诉我当时该做什么。我也问过她这个问题。她说要在跟小孩有共鸣的时候转移他
的兴趣而且泛化(时间，地点，人物，东西)避免刻板重复行为。但因为这种小孩一
般感官统和不好，因此要注意每次变化或转移要一点一点地来，否则小孩会受不了
(OVERWHELMING)而不能跟随你的输入，提前结束回合。当然说起来容易做起来难，
这也需要在实践中慢慢体会。

而且她也告诉我最开始几次特难。因为这种小孩习惯别人告诉他怎么玩东西，而不
是自己能启动一个活动。ABA就是这样由老师启动活动。但是这是小孩必须的。我小
孩第一次去屋子里有很多玩具，但他不主动玩，就在那围着我走来走去。我也着急
啊。但她说过几次就会慢慢好些。第二次小孩就开始有一些自己找东西玩的情况了。
而且第二次的CIRCLE(回合)比第一次多了许多。我感觉在她们的指导下是比较容易
跟小孩勾对上(HOOK)，而且不容易玩掉(LOST KID)，因此回合明显增多。如果是自
己跟小孩玩很容易小孩突然就不理你了或注意力转移了。

在一般最开始是要由小孩启动一项活动，因为是小孩启动的，所以他肯定感兴趣。
当他开始之后，大人介入，引起他的关注，通过设置障碍，加入新的因素而达到转
移他的刻板玩耍方法，将他推向更高更深的交流中。我觉得秋爸爸说得对“如果孩
子启动的一个活动,大人一定要积极参与,并把它引向正确的方向.”这也正是FLOORTIME的
要点之一吧。

我才开始两次培训，我想在将来每周一次的培训中会有更多的切身体会吧。

作者: kwenma2 时间: 2006-12-14 06:06
标题: re:----- Original Messa...
----- Original Message -----
From: Julia Elhauge
To: floortimeMA@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 7/2/2006 9:57:17 AM
Subject: Re: [BostonFloortime] Floortime vs RDI

To really get the differences, you should read the books: Autism/Aspergers:
Solving the Relationship Puzzle by Steve Gutstein for RDI; The Child With
Special Needs by Stanley Greenspan for Floortime (though both have written
many other books.)

Basically, and I hope someone else who is better at this chimes in...
Floortime has you join the child in his interests and his play, with this
basic goal: getting the child to close circles of communication with you,
like a conversation but with lower standards. You are playfully obstructive
in your interactions, like another child might be, trying to create small
problems that the child will problem solve or negotiate with you, closing
more circles of communication. You would use language of a simplicity that
child can understand. For example, my son likes to line up his little cars.
We would enter with two new cars, and put them in line. He, being a control
freak, would object to wherever we put them. We would put on a childish
stubborn face and say we don't like the place he wants us to go. We would
then negotiate where our cars would go, perhaps challenging other cars to a
race to see who wins each spot, or opening a new parking area, etc. By
entering the child's play, we catch them where they are most motivated to
communicate with us rather than ignoring us. I have messed up his control;
he must deal with me. Of course, we are playful and fun, as we are trying
to make them enjoy the interaction, and not induce a meltdown. Some call
this a child-led intervention because we allow the child to chose the
activity to capitalize and his motivation, but since the adult is entering
with an agenda, this is not really true. Floortime develops communication
skills, social negotiation, flexibiilty and problem solving ability, and
expands and develops imaginary play skills so important to the development
of abstract thought later on. As the child's social competance improves, we
hope it generalizes so he will feel comfortable trying to negotiate with
others rather than withdrawing, and that he will enjoy playing with us and
decide playing with others might be fun.

RDI, like Floortime, has a specific set of developmental levels and steps to
guide the parent though the process. It is similar to Floortime in that it
targets the development of social motivation from within the child - i.e.,
develops a desire in the ASD child that NT kids have, a desire to interact
with others for the pleasure of it. In both programs, the parent is the
primary "therapist" because the child is most attached to the parent, and
most motivated to interact with you over all others. In RDI, you play
specific interactive games of the parent's choosing. Parents can use games
developed by Gutstein, but are encouraged, once they understand what they
are trying to acheive at each step, to develop their own games and
incorporate them into daily life/chores. We do a fun coordination game
setting the table - we eat take say, a plate, and copy/coordinate each
others dance to the table, and place the plate down at the same moment. He
has to reference me (look at me to see what I'm doing) and imitate, and
coordinate (modulate his movements to mine at the same time- notice he can't
be in control or it won't work). To coordinate, you have to give up control
of your own agenda, and follow the leader. And its more subtle than that -
with proper coordination, there is no official leader, and you are both
matching each other. We make it very silly and fun (butt shaking, driving
the plate) so there is emotion sharing too. And when we are done, I
spotlight, sometimes he does - we high five, and talk about how fun it is to
set the table TOGETHER. (Spotlighting is verbalizing the best moments and
what you want them to remember - our kids often have recall problems).
There are many other things too, like heavy use of declarative language over
imperative ("I see Nicholas' shoes with no feet in them" over "put on your
shoes.") and incorporating the unexpected, so they will look at you not
because they are prompted, but because it might be entertaining.

Sally who runs this site can best tell you how to start Floortime, though I
would start by buying the book and reading it. She offers free floortime
training monthly most years, though I think not in the Summer. You could
also contact Arleen Schwartz, M.Ed., a Floortime consultant with limited
space opening up in September, who could train you weekly in your home as
well as work iwth your child Aschwa781@aol.com

To start RDI, you would also buy the book (amazon is fastest and cheapest,
don't use the RDI site), contact the local RDI consultant in Brookline, Dr.
Lauren Weeks (listed in phonebook), and go the the RDI site,
www.rdiconnect.com which tells you how to jump start things while waiting
for a consultant.

The difference between both these interventions and the traditional
behavioral approaches is that behavioral interventions get them to do proper
behaviors by breaking down everything into small achievable steps, by giving
an external reward - sticker, snack, motor break, whatever. RDI and
Floortime develop the internal social motivation that drives NT kids to
learn and imitate; the intervention is emotional.

Julia E

作者: panhj 时间: 2006-12-14 13:51
标题: re:今年2月份我在RDI理解实践帖子里写过一...
今年2月份我在RDI理解实践帖子里写过一点相关的东西，现在再整理一下挪到这边，看有无参考价值。

D.I.R/“DIR(FloorTime)”/RDI的联系和区别

“DIR”现在常常专指Green Span倡导的以FloorTime为核心部分的自闭症干预方法，但是我们完全可以把D.I.R理解为自闭症干预的几项原则，这样想的话Green Span的“DIR”和Gustein 的RDI可以认为是符合D.I.R原则的两种比较相似的干预方法——

1)Developmental发展的，是指通过研究总结正常孩子的“发展”过程，然后设法让孩子基于这个发展过程继续成长，让干预的方法符合成长的自然规律，从这点来看，Green Span的“DIR”与Gustein的RDI是一致的，“DIR”提出了“六个发展里程碑”而RDI提出了“6级28阶段”（现在4.0又整理成动态评估、事件记忆、经验分享、创造性思维、自我意识五个方面各5个发展阶段）是很相似的；

2)Individual-Difference个体差异的，其实不但是“DIR”和RDI，几乎所有自闭症治疗方法都承认自闭症的表现是情况各异的，对于不同的个体要根据具体的水平、缺陷情况个采取个性化的治疗方案；

3)Relationship-Based基于人际关系的（或者基于情绪的），这一点是说干预方法的是否以“人际关系”能力为核心。Green Span的“DIR”和RDI都声称是基于人际关系为核心的，实际情况也确实是在朝这个方向发展，并且都更强调人际交往的内在动机的培养；

FloorTime是“DIR”的核心方法，FloorTime地板时光这个词的采用很有含义，有“孩子的成长是从地板开始的”（孩子都是和家长在地板上玩着长大的）“还孩子一个成长的过程”的意思，另外也包含了“实验室的”“课程性的”“特定环境性的”等含义，就是说FloorTime是家长给孩子创造的简化过的容易操控的环境，孩子在FloorTime学到的技能还要再经过提升以便可以在真实环境中使用。他的基本方法和最大特点就是是“跟着孩子的兴趣走”然后创造需要交流的机会。
FloorTime认为交流的基本单位是Circle，再复杂再高级的交流功能也是以circle为基础的，因此FloorTime从最基本的Circle做起，逐渐增加Circle的次数、复杂度从而形成交流的能力和动机；而RDI从比较粗的层面先确定交流的发展应包括情绪分享、参照、协调等阶段，继而强调在不同阶段创造一些机会让孩子去培养相应的动机和技巧，因而形成“FloorTime以孩子为主导，RDI以家长为主导”的印象。
不过我觉得这种提法有点问题，FloorTime以孩子为主导是强调可以并且鼓励跟随孩子的兴趣来选择适当的活动，孩子主导的只是活动的选择；而RDI的家长主导指的是家长主导整体的发展方向，家长应该知道当前阶段用哪些方法着重培养哪个些能力，两者并无可比性。实际的情况是，FloorTime孩子主导着活动的选择，而家长心里把握着六个发展里程碑的总路线；RDI家长主导着整体目标，而在生活中随机应变地创造机会让孩子去学习，可能是家长发起并主导也可能是孩子发起家长响应，并不刻板。
另一个让人觉得RDI以家长为主导的原因也许是RDI中曾强调在亲子间建立“师徒关系（Master-Appretice Relationship）”，这是正常孩子成长过程中与父母形成的典型的关系，有利于孩子的成长，RDI强调这一点是因为一旦建立这种关系对后续的发展将有很大的促进作用。FloorTime虽然没提到这种关系，不过我相信孩子随着FloorTime的里程碑一步步往上走的某个阶段就会自然形成这种关系，FloorTime是绝对不会排斥这种关系的，对“以孩子为主导”的理解不必刻板，而RDI中的师徒关系也不可刻板地理解为单向的主宰，其中的互动成分也是得到承认的。

从具体而微的操作上来看，FloorTime和RDI也是十分相似的，FloorTime里面的很多具体的方法和技巧都和RDI的要求一致，如强调肢体语言、夸张语调、放慢节奏、强调情绪分享等（我本人就是在学习RDI的过程中理解和体会这些方法和技巧的内在道理的）。

Green Span的“DIR”除了FloorTime之外还包含了其他内容，在采用FloorTime方法使孩子在情绪分享、关系能力和思维方面有一定改善后，Green Span的“DIR”也强调引入实际问题的解决（problem-solving time）等内容，甚至可能采用语言治疗师、行为治疗师、特殊教育等等可用的资源，形成一个“全面计划”（comprehensive approach），要实现一个“全面的”计划，投入可能可大可小的，在FloorTime的网站的资料中能看到有指导如何权衡资源分配的部分，而FloorTime是以家庭为基础的一个部分，相对来说投入也少很多，比较容易实现，这也许是为什么知道地板时光FloorTime的人似乎比知道“DIR”的人要多的缘故！
可见“DIR”覆盖的范围比较大，它以关系发展为核心（FloorTime）并尝试集成各种干预方法，现在感觉它和RDI的其中一项区别在于，“DIR”是在使用FloorTime使孩子得到一些改善后开始集成更多方法，而RDI则强调不得不为之而进行了短期的行为或语言矫治后应该尽快回到关系发展的路上；在发展模型上看，RDI似乎研究得比较细致些已经分出400多项功能和技能目标而且仍在不断演进，FloorTime也应该有更细致的说明，但目前我还没看到，这也许是我们进一步比较的重点。

《特殊儿教养宝典》还没拿到手，以上一些理解基于从网上看到的一些资料，未必正确，待好好读一读《特殊儿教育宝典》后再看有没有新的理解。

作者: 问号 时间: 2006-12-14 19:45
标题: re:每周30小时ABA，3小时感统，3小时语...
每周30小时ABA，3小时感统，3小时语言， 2小时FLOORTIME，全部是一对一的个训；
另外，在专业医生指导下的生物疗法。
还有，妈妈在学习RDI和FLOORTIME，参加年会和培训。
--------其实这正是我心目中理想的干预方式--------------

RDI可能离我们越来越远了，从4.0版后，RDI摇身一变成了操作系统（RDI OS), 所有信息彻底封闭，连以前的chat transcripts和newsletter archive也全部删掉了，以后看这些内容要收费，可能是每个月50美金。

看了Floortime和格林斯潘的其他书，感觉格林斯潘才是真正的学者，20多部著作和百多篇论文，以及政府的奖项，足以说明问题了，G博士不过是站在这些学者肩膀上的一个地道的商人而已。

Floortime能兼容和结合其他的干预方式，RDI却唯我独尊，一个RDI认证的咨询师被人问到如何看待ABA时，回答道：＂为什么还要用ＡＢＡ，ＡＢＡ不能解决自闭症的核心问题，只有ＲＤＩ才能解决自闭症的核心缺陷＂

１９９０年到现在，已经１６年了，还没有证据证明ＲＤＩ解决了自闭症的核心缺陷。
甚至解决其他缺陷的证据也没有。

ＲＤＩ的理念实在是非常吸引人，是不是只是花瓶而已？
觉得还是ＡＢＡ这个黄脸婆更可靠，更实际。

相关信息：
＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝
Dear Friends,

Since 2001, the Connections Center website archives have been a valuable resource for parents, professionals and educators around the world. In years to come we hope to be able to always serve the families and friends that we have worked with for so many years with the same amount of accessibility.

Unfortunately, because of the freedom of access to these resources there has been an element of abuse, with people taking statements out of context and using them in a volatile way. We are currently working on a way to remedy the situation, and in the meantime appreciate your patience

＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝

All,
It is my understanding that most useful information will be removed from public availability from this site. In speaking with my consultant, she said that families will be *required* to subscribe to this site by paying a monthly fee. The fee is supposed to be less than $50 per month (who's guessing $49.95?). Tracking will then be done online, and chats and all else will only be available to subscribing members. Did I mention that the families are REQUIRED to join? It is a dictate to the consultants--their patient families MUST join.

I love RDI and I feel it is the only method for my son. Yet I think this place is becoming a money-making machine. The training is outrageously expensive--over $2200 for 4 days and that doens't include airfare or hotel or food or anything else, then there is the biweekly consultant fee, and now a monthly subscription fee. It is ridiculous. People are struggling to pay for this as it is.

I just feel like they are taking something that really works and making it unavailable to the masses, thereby defeating their purpose of truly helping families with children with autism.

I am just very frustrated by all of this. And I am guessing this post, along with the chat transcripts, will soon be deleted since it is inflammatory. May I please say to the good doctors who developed this method before you delete this message---please, please, please realize that we are struggling families and by making everything so expensive you are precluding us from using the one method that truly provides hope.

Sincerely,
A fellow concerned parent.
＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝

作者: binfeng2000 时间: 2006-12-14 20:53
标题: re:他们的商业头脑是很精的,我定了两天的RD...
他们的商业头脑是很精的,我定了两天的RDI讲座,但是发现我没时间去参加,打电话要求改成四天班的,说不能换,$250美元呢,爱来不来,真是没法子.
说"ABA是黄脸婆",不假,这时候黄脸婆让人心里有点踏实.

作者: kwenma2 时间: 2006-12-14 23:29
标题: re:Bin Feng:RDI 两天的...
Bin Feng:

RDI 两天的培训只是简介，给你一个大概的综合性的评述，阐述它的多种层次，放了
一些VIDEO来说明它的方法，以及一些统计报告证明RDI如何有效。

我觉得Gutstein 的商人味较浓，与Greenspan相比较，Greenspan的学者风范
一览无遗。而且Greenspan的敬业负责的精神也令人感动。他在年会上做完他的报告
就马上离开现场返回诊所，原因是能多看一些孩子，多给一些孩子诊断。

作者: enyuhjs 时间: 2006-12-15 10:11
标题: re:[QUOTE][b]下面引用由[u]问号...

下面引用由问号发表的内容：

每周30小时ABA，3小时感统，3小时语言， 2小时FLOORTIME，全部是一对一的个训；
另外，在专业医生指导下的生物疗法。
还有，妈妈在学习RDI和FLOORTIME，参加年会和培训。
-...

每周3小时的感统训练太少了，建议每天1小时。

作者: kwenma2 时间: 2006-12-16 00:04
标题: re:昨天又去了一次FLOORTIME，培训师...
昨天又去了一次FLOORTIME，培训师指导我给孩子作，然后跟她聊，觉得还有一些收
获。她告诉我要随着孩子的情绪而调整我的声音，音调，面部表情，说话节奏等。
而且要随时读出孩子的面部表情和动作来猜测孩子的想法而调整自己的策略，从而
达到最佳效果。希望能用在实际生活中。她说昨天我与孩子互动的CIRCLE数又比上
次多了(这是我第三次去她那里)。

作者: melon 时间: 2007-9-8 11:40
标题: re:把这个旧帖子顶上来，因为太有同感了。我对...
把这个旧帖子顶上来，因为太有同感了。我对我们当地的RDI consultant (still in training)很不喜欢，或者说应该对她present的内容非常不感冒。她公开宣称ABA只会让孩子更加自闭，而且做RDI的时候不能做ABA，因为ABA会pollute RDI的效果。

她这么说我觉得真是可笑，因为ABA带来的巨大效果我们亲身经历。要是没有亲历过ABA，还真没准儿给她误导了。而且Dr G.绝对是钻到钱眼儿里去了。他做２天的讲演要价２万美金！唉！

还有一点，不论用哪种干预方法，治疗师的水平非常关键。而且大家好像都还觉得ABA很机械，其实我跟了洛瓦斯（LOVAAS)的consultant 好几年了，觉得现在ABA变化很大，根本跟从Catherine Maurice 'Let me hear your voice'里面写的不一样了。那时１０年前的东西！有时间我来谈谈我怎么给孩子prompt及泛化。我的经验告诉我，ABA不等于孩子要依赖prompt。

如果能负担的起，绝对建议雇用正规训练，和你的想法吻合的专业人员。这个效果差太多了。

作者: 哈哈月亮 时间: 2007-11-12 09:14
标题: re:好帖子，顶一下。最近也在研究地板时光。K...
好帖子，顶一下。最近也在研究地板时光。KEWENMA2你们最近的地板时光训练有一些什么进展啊。我们目前没有条件请人，如果我想自己训练，买哪基本书，如何入手呢。

作者: mmm 时间: 2007-11-12 12:09
标题: re:呵呵，我可没觉得 Floortime 是...
呵呵，我可没觉得 Floortime 是黄脸婆。仔细研究一下，RDI 和 Floortime 的理论基础其实是一样的。读一下儿童心理学方面的书，能看到很多 RDI 的影子。

根据我的观察，很多家长做 RDI ，最后就是把 ABA 游戏化而已。换句话说，就是用 ABA 做游戏罢了。

这也没什么不好，反正孩子是进步了，懂游戏规则了。至于那些核心的东西，反正我没亲眼见过谁能真正搞定。

作者: mmm 时间: 2007-11-12 12:19
标题: re:真正好的 ABA 老师，是不会把孩子教刻...
真正好的 ABA 老师，是不会把孩子教刻板了的。我就见过这样一个老师，亲眼看着她带一个学生在她家进行生活训练（这个孩子的家里有事，所以把孩子托在她家），不过就两个星期，孩子会了好多话，尤其像“别闹了”“你可真逗”“哎呀，不舒服”这样很口语化的东西都出来了，把家长高兴的不得了。是我们不会教，不是 ABA 机械。不要赖错好人。

作者: 秋爸爸 时间: 2007-11-12 16:47
标题: re:嗯，很期待melon能继续讲下去，单独开...
嗯，很期待melon能继续讲下去，单独开个帖吧，另开块地盘吧。期待！

作者: mmm 时间: 2007-11-12 19:12
标题: re:期待ing 。。。
期待ing 。。。

作者: yangweili 时间: 2007-11-13 13:07
标题: re:台湾出的那套书我倒是囫囵吞枣看完了，觉得...
台湾出的那套书我倒是囫囵吞枣看完了，觉得难以入手，看不出各个阶段间的连接性，不好操作

作者: 小宇爸爸 时间: 2007-11-29 13:13
标题: re:我想购买RDI及地板时光的书,不知道在那...
我想购买RDI及地板时光的书,不知道在那里有得买,有人能帮我吗?

作者: wenwenma 时间: 2007-11-29 15:58
标题: re:我们这里有地板时光《自闭儿教养宝典》，如...
我们这里有地板时光《自闭儿教养宝典》，如果你想要，可以和陈老师联系 13641894089。

注意，地板时光有两本书，一本是《特殊儿教养宝典》，一本是《自闭儿教养宝典》，针对的孩子不一样。

RDI 的书，这个网上可以下载：
http://www.elimautism.org/leadbbs/Announce/Announce.asp?BoardID=83&ID=214181

作者: niuniu2007 时间: 2008-3-1 02:23
标题: re:又把这个帖子顶上来了。如冯班说，地板时光...
又把这个帖子顶上来了。如冯班说，地板时光理论好，但是对操作者要求很高，要求有点子，可偏偏又不象RDI至少还有本书上面有详细的protocol.

而坛子中地板时光的资料和讨论较少，比起RDI来少多了。

我看kwenma那长篇英文的里面就有很多点子和具体技巧，很好。这些具体的方法我不记得书中有。

再看地板时光，不愧是心理学家搞起来的，虽然还是以训练communicate, relate为主，但是连assertiveness（象自信心一类的吧）都有训练（小孩把狼打倒，保护了洋娃娃），真是心理上的一个较全面的发展和训练。

作者: niuniu2007 时间: 2008-3-2 00:10
标题: re:立刻学以致用。昨天我上网打字，两...
立刻学以致用。

昨天我上网打字，两个孩子去壁橱里玩，然后一惊一乍的跑来，弟弟说：“那个壁橱里有个衣服，姐姐说是怪物，我们跑出来了”。

我立刻和他们一起去，假装把怪物打倒，并赶出门外，我高兴的说：“看，怪物给赶走了，现在可以好好玩了！”

早晨起来，姐姐叽叽喳喳的说小海豚学游泳。。。自己学游泳。。。牙掉了会不会痛。。。弟弟忽然说不高兴。我问他为什么不高兴，他只是说不喜欢，然后就飞手抓姐姐的脸，当然是虚晃一枪，还是控制了一下，没有抓到。我立刻说，可以打怪物，绝对不能打姐姐。因为昨晚的事，他思索了一回。我再问为什么不高兴姐姐。。。儿子立刻把姐姐往边上推，我懂了，原来是因为姐姐躺在他的枕头上，太挤了。我赶紧教他用语言表达。儿子有话愿意告状给大人，却不愿和姐姐直接说，他要学会直接和小伙伴交流。

地板时光里非常注重一切建立在emotion上，学习各种交流，关系，社交，认知。

这样学，体会深刻。象我儿子竟然还思索了一下，为什么可以打怪物，而不能打姐姐。

作者: niuniu2007 时间: 2008-3-16 01:32
标题: re:地板时光或是DIR不仅是干预手段，也是评...
地板时光或是DIR不仅是干预手段，也是评估手段（见Infant and early childhood mental health 或有关书籍）。

我觉得这可能比它作为干预手段还重要！评估孩子的发育，自己心中有数，然后选择合适的方法来训练。老格也说DIR是“全包括型（inclusive)”，不仅ABA，感统，连生物疗法他都表示试尝。

我也觉得有时孩子已经够专门迷恋一个东西了，我也试尝跟着孩子走，心里却在叫，不能再玩同一的东西了，早该扩展了（6岁孩子）。所以，有计划有结构的教育该按部就班时就按部就班。

个人认为地板时光最有力的地方是情绪和心理的教育。在生活中随机出现的事件中，按照大人对孩子发育阶段的认识而进行情绪和心理的“情境教育”，孩子认识会深刻一些。

评估的6个水准（中文的翻译加了少许我的理解）
1。共享的注意力和调节（shared attention and regulation).
2.与他人的挂钩与联系（engagement and relating )
3.双向的，有目的性的，情感信号与交流的建立（two way intentional affective signaling and communication)
4.长串的，和他人一起调节的情感信号的建立，和共同的社交问题解决（long chains of coregulated emotional signaling and shared social problem solving)
5.认知和情感概念的建立(creating representation or ideas）
6。认知和情感概念之间搭起桥梁：逻辑思维（building bridges between ideas:logical thinking）

作者: jiajunmei 时间: 2008-6-6 00:47
标题: re:再顶一下这个帖子，高手云集，思想闪...
再顶一下这个帖子，高手云集，思想闪闪发光，值得大家好好看下。我觉得floortime 最可贵的地方在于对孩子各种异常感觉特点的细致观察，以及在此基础上促进孩子emotion的六个里程碑的发展（一、自我调节及对世界产生兴趣，二、亲密感，三、双向沟通，四、复杂的沟通，五、情绪概念，六，情绪思考）。
其实孩子是沿着这样的次序发展的，拔苗助长的“教”反而坏事。

作者: amberbrown101 时间: 2008-6-7 01:47
标题: re:最近上了个地板时光的网上培训课，借kw...
最近上了个地板时光的网上培训课，借kwenma的帖和大家交流下。

Dr. Greenspan讲了很多专业的东西，或者说是地板时光的理论基础，这个严谨很让人钦佩。具体操作方面评估讲得比较多，训练大方向讲得比较多，具体操作讲得比较少，因为地板时光强调的 I （individualize）。这也是为什么前面帖子降到地板时光实施起来不好掌握。

1. 强度要求

地板时光强调的是”engage， engage，engage （参与）“。我感觉这个对做家长的要求很多，想想看你得一刻不停的让小孩也不让自己闲着。Greenspan在一段录像中强调，做地板时光的时候不让小孩有哪怕1，2秒的alone time。他同时建议每天6-8个20分钟的训练段。以至于在学生交流贴中，有人提出家长要ABA是因为那样家长可以偷一下懒。不过在被问到那很少时间的地板时光有没有效时，老格举了个吃饭的例子：饥饿的人有点饭吃再少也是好。总的说来他认为，有好过没有，越多越好。

2.怎么扩展？

expand （扩展）是家长比较关心也比较难掌握的方面。想想看你怎么才能在参与中把小孩可能只有3-4步的双向沟通扩展成40～50步。这个课上具体操作讲得很少，可能floortime consultant 这个时候就拍上用场了。家长就算是有时间有精力，没有好的办法吸引孩子注意力也不行啊。

3.小孩主导

地板时光强调小孩主导，大人随从，从小孩感兴趣的地方入手，这样一些问题就出来了，那小孩调皮捣蛋怎么办呀？刻板行为？老格的说法是，小孩还是要管教的，怎么管？同年纪正常小孩怎么管就怎么管，不过这个年纪不是生理年纪而是孩子的语言，情感水平年纪，而且管大不管小，就是说大方向比如打人，自伤什么的管，没坐端正，发怪笑什么的不管。刻板行为自然是通过engage解决。

4. sensory 问题。

好像这个DIR中的 I 实际上就是小孩的sensory profile，感觉地板时光对提高小孩宗旨就两条， 1）增进和小孩的情感交流，2）根据孩子sensory profile有针对的交流。这一条也是难中只难。

作者: 寂寞沙洲 时间: 2008-6-17 11:27
标题: re:嗯，看了各个高手们的回帖，感觉最地板时光...
嗯，看了各个高手们的回帖，感觉最地板时光又有了新的认识，自己也正在看《特殊儿教养宝典》，感觉对家长梳理孩子的情绪问题的确很有帮助的，当然对我更是很有帮助呢。希望高手多多发言，可以给我们新家长多灌溉灌溉，实在是太感谢了：）

作者: XYNHHQLD 时间: 2008-7-1 09:31
标题: re:看了各个高手的回贴，感觉自已对地板时光认...
看了各个高手的回贴，感觉自已对地板时光认识还很肤浅，应该将《特殊儿教养宝典》再细细看一遍！也许有很多与半年前不同的体会！

我们没有系统地实施地板时光，但在与好好日常相处中用了一些地板时光的理念。感觉好好在情感方面半年来进步很大。

继续关注此帖。期待更多的精彩交流。

作者: tatada 时间: 2008-12-3 23:36
标题: re:*- 强烈关注着,并谢谢你们!...
*- 强烈关注着,并谢谢你们!!

作者: 清潭 时间: 2008-12-5 21:16
标题: re:我正在看《特殊儿教养宝典》，相见恨晚！...
我正在看《特殊儿教养宝典》，相见恨晚！
期待更多人的心得。

作者: guaiguai 时间: 2008-12-17 13:09
标题: re:我看到网上有卖DVD和书的，不知道自学能...
我看到网上有卖DVD和书的，不知道自学能学的好吗？我也打电话问了一个PROFESSIONAL，但是都太贵啊！！

作者: guaiguai 时间: 2008-12-18 10:26
标题: re:网上有许多卖地板时光的DVD，不知道哪一...
网上有许多卖地板时光的DVD，不知道哪一种适合自学，http://www.icdl.com/bookstore/catalog/index.shtml ，书太多了请问楼上的高人知道哪一种好啊？

作者: kwenma2 时间: 2008-12-18 11:59
标题: re:[QUOTE][b]下面引用由[u]gu...

下面引用由guaiguai发表的内容：

网上有许多卖地板时光的DVD，不知道哪一种适合自学，http://www.icdl.com/bookstore/catalog/index.shtml ，书太多了请问楼上的高人知道哪一种好啊？

Two books:
(1) Engaging Autism: Using the Floortime Approach to Help Children Relate, Communicate and Think
by Stanley I. Greenspan, M.D. and Serena Wieder, Ph.D.
(2) The Child With Special Needs: Encouraging Intellectual and Emotional Growth :
http://www.amazon.com/Child-Special-Needs-Encouraging-Intellectual/dp/0201407264

(1) 是一本新书，2006年出的。 (2) 是老书，但是例子多，让你明白孩子的感统(SENSORY)方面有哪些特点，你该如何针对这些特点来调整跟他的互动。

作者: baby_zeng 时间: 2009-6-17 18:03
标题: re:我最近看了the child with...
我最近看了the child with special needs.但是我觉得里面的东西特别好，特别是个例，很具有操作性。书里面的有一段引导小孩说话的技巧和我自己通过教育小孩摸索出来的技巧是一样的，所以我觉得这本书很好。我的孩子还处在简单的对话程度，（就是会回答是否，要不要，或者做出选择或者主动要求家长做什么事情）不知道各位高人有什么好的技巧和方法，让他的说话的内容能够复杂一点，语言能够更丰富。另外，他对“不能做”好像不是很理解，有时候非要手拿棍子，才能让他罢手，不知各位有什么好方法教教。多谢了。

作者: jlittleant 时间: 2009-6-18 11:50
标题: re:I think we need to l...
I think we need to look at research. Dr. Gustein published an article on Evaluation of the Relationship Development Intervention Program to examine how effective RDI is. In this report, he said no children met the criteria of autism after the RDI intervention. If we look at the data, the 16 kids participated in this study have IQ ranging from 70 to 118. In special education, below 70 is regarded as intellectual impairment. In other words, none of these kids have cognitive disability. The data also shows that these kids stay in RDI program for almost 3 yeas;some received RDI intervention for more than 6 years. Many potential factors can account for the outcome. Again, about the ADOS he used in the study. ADOS is considered the "golder measurement" so far for autism. I happened to know the ADOS training director. According to her, Gustein and his team are not trained to use ADOS, so the data on that are not reliable. And if you have more questions about RDI, you can email Gustein himself:gutstein@rdiconnect.com

BTW, if you are in U.S, can you contact me? I am thinking maybe we can work together to help parents and kids in China through using the resources here. At least, we can discuss about it.

Myself is a Ph.D student at the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis. You can contact me by:
qianx035@umn.edu

作者: 秋爸爸 时间: 2009-6-18 13:17
标题: re:RDI有正式出版的学术论文吗？楼上指的是...
RDI有正式出版的学术论文吗？楼上指的是哪一篇？早几年古斯汀在其网站上贴过一篇投稿JADD的，但后来也给杂志拒了。
总之，RDI至今没有被学术界同行认可。

作者: binfeng2000 时间: 2009-6-18 14:19
标题: re:听老顾在培训班上说起这话题,老顾长叹一声...
听老顾在培训班上说起这话题,老顾长叹一声,活象个中国人,"咳,政治呢!别提它....我们在多伦多大学有个长期项目了,看最后谁笑到最后!"

作者: 方静 时间: 2009-6-18 16:17
标题: re:秋爸爸就抱着那过气的40年前的ABA吧，...
秋爸爸就抱着那过气的40年前的ABA吧，我们都在与时俱进。
秋老头：派你家的老师们我可是一再强调要她们多用RDI和地板时光的。
我要干呕了。

作者: 秋爸爸 时间: 2009-6-18 16:48
标题: re:我想我们得来看一看科研。顾发了一篇评估R...
我想我们得来看一看科研。顾发了一篇评估RDI有效性的的研究论文，说经RDI干预后的所有孩子都成功逃离出自闭症诊断标准里面了。可是审看一下他的数据，我们发现研究中的那16个孩子智商测验在70-118之间，而低于70才被认作智力障碍的。也就是说，所有研究中的孩子本来都不存在认知缺陷。他的数据还说孩子们作了3年的RDI，其中还有6年的。其他潜在的因素也同样能够解释这些孩子的进步。而且，研究中采用了ADOS评估，它本可作为自闭症的准金标准，不过顾博士小组从未获得过ADOS的专业培训，所以他的那些数据不可靠。最后号召大家去email质疑顾的RDI。
===
以上为48楼的大致中文意思。
J蚂蚁，你为何不写中文，害我如此吃力地翻译，还不知道走样儿没有。
我也只是顺着48楼的话说说而已，本来没胆儿挑头儿闹事儿呀。

呼叫，“黄河黄河，我是泰山，向我开炮！”

作者: baby_zeng 时间: 2009-6-18 17:21
标题: re:问题是那个e-mail的地址是个错误的啊...
问题是那个e-mail的地址是个错误的啊。

作者: 秋爸爸 时间: 2009-6-18 17:25
标题: re:那就别质疑了呗。
那就别质疑了呗。

作者: h1n1 时间: 2009-6-18 19:20
标题: re:秋爸爸翻译得真好，明白多了。
秋爸爸翻译得真好，明白多了。

作者: jlittleant 时间: 2009-6-19 04:59
标题: re:秋爸爸 , thank you for...
秋爸爸 , thank you for translation. Most computers at the Unviersity of Minnesota do not have Chinese input, so...
The article is called:
Evaluation of the Relationship Development Intervention Program
For those who are interested, please go to the following website to download the article
http://groups.google.com/group/zhongguoautism/files

作者: baby_zeng 时间: 2009-6-19 08:51
标题: re:哇，全是英文的啊，有没有翻译啊。
哇，全是英文的啊，有没有翻译啊。

作者: jlittleant 时间: 2009-6-20 06:08
标题: good websites
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/autism/complete-index.shtml

作者: 老虎娘 时间: 2009-6-20 10:21
标题: re:Floortime，越来越觉得是好东西。
Floortime，越来越觉得是好东西。

作者: LZL760811 时间: 2009-6-21 16:45
标题: re:方静真的很了不起！！我自从半个月前开始上...
方静真的很了不起！！我自从半个月前开始上以琳网，学到了很多东西，特别对地板时光和RDI很感兴趣，想仔细看一看。以上的帖子真是百家争鸣，很有意义，很能引导我们去思索。

作者: 臭小子 时间: 2009-7-29 22:11
标题: re:特殊儿教养宝典和自闭儿教养宝典有什么区别...
特殊儿教养宝典和自闭儿教养宝典有什么区别吗？哪本更实用些？

作者: xiaobaihe 时间: 2009-10-3 23:49
标题: re:有中文版的吗？看不懂
有中文版的吗？看不懂

作者: 林 时间: 2010-8-30 21:50
标题: re:这个帖子为什么沉了，我再顶一下吧！...
这个帖子为什么沉了，我再顶一下吧！

听别人说最好先看《特殊儿童教养宝典》，然后再看《自闭儿教养宝典》会好一些，不过两本我都没看过。

另一个帖子叫做《自闭儿教养宝典读书笔记》也是讲DIR的，是不是大家都跑过去了呢？

欢迎光临以琳自闭症论坛 (http://new.elimautism.org/)